| Author | Thread: NWO-ToMU Talks | Page 1 | 2 |
| Kaelas Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 124 years old
Real Name: Barry
| Message #13170 Posted: Sep 30, 2008, 10:27 pm |
This is ridiculous. We're in the middle of a war because of what? We misunderstood Poseidon's position in your Clan, which lead us to assuming that you had agreed to follow certain rules. Then when you broke the rules that weren't there for you, we complained, then retaliated.
So basically we both did exactly what we should have done except it was wrong...
How about a truce? Surely we can come to some agreement we can both live with. |
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| Vanishing Posts: 76
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 130 years old
| Message #13172 Posted: Sep 30, 2008, 10:48 pm |
I'm not sure, but i think we did that some time ago back in the good old days of the old thread. i miss the old thread.
We're just arguing for the sheer enjoyment of it now, i think. please tell me no-one else is still confused as to how TOMU and NWO are going to act towards each other. otherwise i'm going to look very foolish and insensitive.
anyway, here is a good place for us to actually get to know each other for good or bad.
Hello, my name is Vanishing. I'm evil and i like silver better than gold because it sparkles more, and its a better conductor of electricity.
I do attack as hard as i can on occasion but do stop if politely asked. I'm very sarcastic and i'm more concerned with my reputation than my resources.
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| Echothrice Posts: 98
Location: Villuno
Magus Age: 123 years old
| Message #13173 Posted: Sep 30, 2008, 10:53 pm |
Hello, I'm Echothrice, random commentor on random topics. I don't really have a reputation, that I'm aware of, so I'm working on changing that, preferably so that I'm viewed by the community as a whole in a good light. If anyone has comments, I will reply in a calm, composed manner. If it escalates, I will continue to respond in the same calm, composed manner when sending my golems and clanmates to flatten my detractors.
By clanmates, I typically mean Sconi, he really likes shinies. I almost think he's part dragon, except for the fact that he most definitely isn't. |
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| Vanishing Posts: 76
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 130 years old
| Message #13174 Posted: Sep 30, 2008, 11:00 pm |
[edit] can you mentally remove any tinges of bitchyness out of this post, they shouldn't be there this time. honest. [/edit]
just to be sure, which part of this:
"just because you never took the time to get to know us and just used us for your own political ends is not our fault"
is "bullshit" and "why [you're] sick to death of NWO."
did you ever actually inquire about our clan structure or just assume it was the same as your own? I don't actually know here so i'm actually asking now instead of slinging wild accusations about as per usual
and/or did you use us to advance our political goals putting your own aside in a show of goodwill and generosity? or did you only do what you would have anyway with the hope of gaining an ally out of the matter?
again, actually asking so to-the-point answers would be appreciated for this at least before we descend into the fun that is 'debate'...Last Edited: Sep 30, 2008, 11:04 pm |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #13175 Posted: Sep 30, 2008, 11:20 pm |
| The implication that we somehow "used" your clan to further some sinister plot of ours is the bullshit I was referring to. Your clan was invited to a summit, you sent a representative (or possibly a representative sent himself), and we agreed that an alliance was for the best. Talk was had about forming some sort of UN, but never really resolved. I'm sure someone still has the logs if you want to know what was said. Now, suddenly, however, we're portrayed by your clan as manipulative dictators who trampled all over your rights. Gee, I didn't know inviting you to a summit was such a transgression..? I'll do better next time...? I've always treated your clan with deference and respect. If it was explained to me that you did not wish to be treated like I treated the other six or so clans I deal with, I would have adapted my strategy. You never gave any indication that you weren't like the others, or I would have asked. |
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| Denerid Posts: 279
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 125 years old
| Message #13176 Posted: Sep 30, 2008, 11:23 pm |
| Gryficus said:
Please don't blame poseidon. He is a good evil guy, and should not have his name drug through the mud for attempting to herd cats. I hate to have partially put him in this predicament.
Partially, Gryf? No. Entirely.
We respect Poseidon as the SM of great clan, and personally as a very amicable and capable person.
You disrespected him by violating agreements he made in his capacity as the leader of your clan. Because of the sheer indifference and gall you have shown to the diplomatic work done by your own SM, you've embroiled your clan in a war of your own making and ruined chances of your clan being seen as a reasonable bargaining partner in the future.
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| Gryficus Posts: 239
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 127 years old
| Message #13179 Posted: Sep 30, 2008, 11:56 pm |
Have you heard the good news about the Goddess of Discord?
Poseidon had not nor has he ever given us orders. He said an offer was proposed. To me, it looked like an ultimatum. Many in the clan took offense to it, myself included. This was by no means a decision I made by myself, but one in concert with like-minded individuals. I acted according to my personal believes that all order is disorder. Hail Eris!
Where you see indifference and gall towards the authority, my friend, I see free will. If you wish to set that aside, it is your choice to do so, but not mine, sir...not mine.
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| Gryficus Posts: 239
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 127 years old
| Message #13182 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 12:07 am |
free will |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #13185 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 12:23 am |
| Gryficus said:
Poseidon had not nor has he ever given us orders. He said an offer was proposed.
He lied. The offer was agreed to weeks ago. |
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| Sconibulus Posts: 664
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 123 years old
| Message #13187 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 12:24 am |
Allow me to interject a couple cents.
From our end, what happened was as follows
Magier
Summit (Poseidon's here)
We win the war! Yay!
Alliance is extended.
Panacea smashes Chaos
We send some messages, after Panacea is satisfied, temporary stoppage occurs, we think our alliance agreement has been spread to the rest of you guys. (Skirmish rules show up here I think)
A week or three passes
Panacea smashes Chaos again
Yami fires a message to Poseidon, we smash the golem
Cold war-type thing
We announce the MSL
Vanishing smashes our newbiest newblet, mapman
We retaliate with excessive force
Gryf retaliates with more force
We hit Gryf with yet more force
OMG WAR!!!
From your end, what seems to have happened was
Magier
Summit (go along Poseidon)
We win the war! Yay!
Alliance over
Pancea smashes chaos
messages fly around, nothing really changes, probably nobody but Panacea was informed
a week or three passes
Panacea hits chaos again, figuring enough time has passed
we smash the golem
you guys see Yami's message, think the rules are draconian and were never agreed to
cold war-type thing
MSL announced
Vanishing tries to violate rules of MSL to test response, not recognizing that only members are protected
We go smash
Gryf goes smash
We go smash
OMG WAR!
Obviously, our problem here was miscommunication, we welcome anyone who would care to come to #muelsfell_conference on the Darkmyst irc server to talk, and possibly settle this... unfortunately before I get a chance to blow today's motivation going Kersmash!
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| Tort Posts: 41
Location: Dethsfell Rest
Magus Age: 127 years old
| Message #13188 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 12:29 am |
Howdy all, my name is Tort (in the game at least).
I think we could all use a good snuggle with a couple of cute kittens. Perhaps a bubble bath. Maybe lay in bed with the heaters on high and read a good couple chapters of our favorite book (Snowcrash anyone?).
But for serious... it's just a game. Lets all take a chill pill and not try to worry so much about who killed whos golem or who misconstrued Xs comment about Ys clan. Its really not that as big of a deal as yall think :-P
It's all just miscommunication and humorousness.
(Btw I support war just so the game isn't boring :P. Simply because 6 biggest guilds aligning and making sure smaller guilds dont get big or also join up is kinda a lame pvp environment) |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #13190 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 12:34 am |
"Cold war-type thing
We announce the MSL
Vanishing smashes our newbiest newblet, mapman"
you forgot my being smashed into the dirt with excessive force by gryficus and endovior's bandwagon jumping. |
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| Sconibulus Posts: 664
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 123 years old
| Message #13191 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 12:41 am |
Meh, I considered that the OMG WAR! But at this point it is irrelevant anyway. Let's just talk this out like nice peaceable blokes (what the hell is wrong with me?) and see if we can't come to some sort of agreement. (I must be feverish)
Can't we all just get along? (Oh dear gods I must be terminal) |
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| Panacea Posts: 167
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 123 years old
| Message #13192 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 12:44 am |
Yes I think Sconi's got it right, miscommunication was probably the major cause, as I'm not entirely sure how TOMU came that conclusion from my messages. I thought I'd actually said that I didn't think we had an alliance (don't have the messages archived so can't be 100% sure). But I can see how that message might have just failed to reach the rest of the clan.
It doesn't help that the majority of people worth hitting are in the big non-pvp clans. |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #13195 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 12:53 am |
I passed on every message you sent me (even the non-verbal ones where you simply keep hitting me, thanks by the way, really adds to my desire to work out peace). That's why I copied Poseidon (which you bitched at me about) - so that he'd know this wasn't working. That's how I got him to talk to me, by pointing out that you seemed to have no regard for the alliance (which I now know you had no knowledge of).
ETA: I think that's the most annoying part of this - I'm being hit WHILE typing a reply in a peace talk thread. That's why usually we put into place a 24 hour freeze on attacks when negotiating (which, by the way, kaelas did send out and I'm about to repeal if I can find an SM to sign off on it)Last Edited: Oct 1, 2008, 12:55 am |
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| Gryficus Posts: 239
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 127 years old
| Message #13200 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 1:08 am |
I was definitely under the impression that the alliance was a Magier-beatdown one. Once they kind of fizzled away, so did the alliance in my mind.
Miscommunication is a part of discord, as all things are. Miscommunication should be embraced just as much as communication, if not more so for it's constant neglect. I'm sure it's hurt, being always referred to in a negative light.
If everyone is holding hands, who is left to attack?
(answer: the man with three hands) |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #13201 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 1:10 am |
That's why I asked Poseidon if he valued our alliance. The answer is clear now = he did, nobody else does.
Really, I would have been fine dissolving it, if anyone had asked! |
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| Kaelas Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 124 years old
Real Name: Barry
| Message #13202 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 1:12 am |
| As it appears that getting any kind of treaty with NWO is impossible, could we instead make agreements with those members of NWO that are willing? It seems that at least Panacea and Vanishing are willing to consider some kind of arrangement. |
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| Gryficus Posts: 239
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 127 years old
| Message #13204 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 1:21 am |
Feel free to make agreements with individual people. You do not need permission to attempt that.
Also feel free to deal with aggression you deem "excessive" with measures you see fit.
It's the basis of civilization! |
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NanashiPosts: 1115 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 126 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #13213 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 2:15 am |
| Gryficus said:
Also feel free to deal with aggression you deem "excessive" with measures you see fit.
It's the basis of civilization!
That is the basis of armies and suicide bombers...or hadn't you people noticed.
I read this and wonder how much is simply playing the game and how much is verbally venting frustation from other things. An assumption was made, and later found to be incorrect, that NWO was an organized clan with a set heirarchy. The truth as I understand it is that NWO is more like the Legion of Doom (this comic reference should have been obvious), with each member acting as they see fit and only acting in concert when it suits them.
I am not saying that NWO is right and ToMU is wrong, if anything both groups have been wrong. As humans, we assume much and jump to conclusions. It is instinctive in some ways, part of how we survived as a species.
FYI, Panacea is not singling out members of ToMU, as a number of OTAKU members can attest. He is simply attacking magi close to him or people that he feels the need to single out. That he griefs his targets is an issue, but there is no way to really prevent it in clan other than to smack him down. It is part of the combat system. |
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| Denerid Posts: 279
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 125 years old
| Message #13229 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 5:23 am |
| Nanashi said:
FYI, Panacea is not singling out members of ToMU, as a number of OTAKU members can attest. He is simply attacking magi close to him or people that he feels the need to single out. That he griefs his targets is an issue, but there is no way to really prevent it in clan other than to smack him down. It is part of the combat system.
Oh, we weren't claiming he was singling us out. We've been quite aware that he was attacking OTAKU too, and a few other clans. We were just pointing out that it was against the terms of the treaty his own SM agreed to to 'grief' any ToMU member at all. And we assumed that diplomacy would be conducted on other fronts by other clans, when he 'griefed' their members. |
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| Endovior Posts: 172
Location: Nournsland
Magus Age: 124 years old
| Message #13231 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 6:08 am |
*Waves*
Hi, I'm Endovior. Given the nature of our 'leadership corps', I'm really more a glorified soldier then a Duke, but I'll take what titles I can. My favorite sports are looting, pillaging, and bandwagon jumping. Whee!
In all seriousness, I DID take the time to explain the situation to Yami, shortly after the point at which us rank-and-files actually got the message regarding TOMU's proposed treaty/ultimatum. However, as neither side saw the need to do anything about it at that point but launch progressively nastier coordinated attacks, the result being war is hardly surprising.
Nor, for that matter, hardly objectionable. From a loot/damage perspective, I'm still coming out ahead. Perhaps less ahead then if I'd simply kept farming the Mountain Giant, but this way IS certainly more entertaining. |
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| Gryficus Posts: 239
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 127 years old
| Message #13232 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 6:37 am |
| Nanashi said:
I am not saying that NWO is right and ToMU is wrong, if anything both groups have been wrong. As humans, we assume much and jump to conclusions. It is instinctive in some ways, part of how we survived as a species.
wrong and right are falable notions of such high subjectivity, that they are often used on two opposing sides. Neither is part of the (big T) Truth, only the (little t) truth, which is a construct of one's mind, and therefore not real. As such, there should be no discussion of wrong or right...only did and did not.
Eris says it is true!
Also, I like to jump to conclusions and/or sneak up and hit them on the head from behind. |
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| Vanishing Posts: 76
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 130 years old
| Message #13233 Posted: Oct 1, 2008, 6:58 am |
Yami - i find it interesting that you added the word sinister where it had not been used before. i assumed that your clans aims might have been to generate some kind of peace and stability, but whatever. (now i'm goading you by suggesting some kind of freudian admission of less than savoury goals by picking up on a single part of an otherwise explanatory post. see what i did there?)
I think it might possibly have been for the best that NWO has shattered your naivety of the political world at this early stage so you don't enter so blindly into agreements in the future. no, i don't count this as 'doing you a favour' so no need to discuss on that. and no, i don't think NWO is better than TOMU as a clan. just different. horses for courses and all that.
I can't ask you to change who you are, but you should be informed that 'ranting' (for want of a better word) doesn't provoke me into a calm and friendly state of mind and so i usually end up tormenting people for my own amusement. don't rise to me, it only encourages.
now, the statements about mapman are news to me, i hadn't even noticed he hadn't always been in TOMU. and the editorial was a post retaliation attempt to make other people consider not joining the SL in a roleplay manner (hence why no individual names were used as the townsfolk probably wouldn't have known them).
Sconibulus' rebuttal started off well but then moved into game mechanics, spoiling the rp mood imho. but thats just my critique and getting off topic slightly.
no-one mentioned that i hit Ezekiah that day too (i assumed the retal. was for hitting 2 tomu people rather than just hitting a newbie clanmate, but that doesn't really matter)
errrm, lost my chain of thought. i'm sure this is enough fuel to keep everyone going for a while though... |
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| Vanishing Posts: 76
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 130 years old
| Message #13380 Posted: Oct 2, 2008, 5:54 pm |
Apparently not. good.
So I was thinking earlier today and in the interest of getting to know everyone a little better i wouldn't mind knowing what the TOMU clan philosophy is.
Are there any questions anyone wants to ask me/us? |
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