| Author | Thread: Does this seem right to anyone? |
| Panili Posts: 19
Location: Ibonbourg
Magus Age: 113 years old
| Message #1900 Posted: Apr 27, 2008, 10:54 pm |
I have (had may be the more correct wording now) a level 2 wood golem guarding my workshop. I have a level 4 wall, the golemn was well armored with a clay tablet power source and crystal eyes. I log in to the following combat reports, showing my golem getting it's wooden butt handed to it by a golemn so lower in level that the attacker is earning 9 xp.
[Round 1] Your Bone Golem begins to advance upon her Wood Golem while her Wood Golem begins to advance upon your Bone Golem. Both combatants are out of range with about 50 feet between them.
[Round 2] Your Bone Golem continues to advance upon her Wood Golem while her Wood Golem closes to melee with your Bone Golem.
Your Bone Golem attacks with its fist and misses 7 times, but also hits the right arm (12 dmg), the chest (12 dmg), the chest (12 dmg), the abdomen (12 dmg), the pelvis (12 dmg) and the right arm (12 dmg).
Her Wood Golem attacks with its fist and misses 6 times, but also hits the right leg (3 dmg), the left hand (3 dmg), the right leg (8 dmg -- CRITICAL HIT!) and the chest (3 dmg).
[Round 3] Her Wood Golem attacks with its fist and misses once, but also hits once on the head (3 dmg).
Your Bone Golem attacks with its fist and misses 5 times, but also hits the pelvis (15 dmg), the left hand (12 dmg), the chest (15 dmg), the chest (12 dmg) and the head (15 dmg).
[Round 4]
Your Bone Golem attacks with its fist and misses 4 times, but also hits once on the right leg (15 dmg).
[Round 5]
Your Bone Golem hits once on the abdomen (15 dmg).
[Round 6]
Your Bone Golem attacks with its fist and misses once, failing to hit at all.
[Round 7]
Your Bone Golem attacks with its fist and misses once, but also hits once on the chest (15 dmg).
[Round 8]
Your Bone Golem hits once on the chest (15 dmg).
[Round 9]
Your Bone Golem hits once on the left hand (12 dmg).
[Round 10]
Your Bone Golem attacks with its fist and misses once, failing to hit at all.
Results: Bone Golem did 213 dmg while her Wood Golem did 20 dmg.
You earned 9 xp and Panili earned 1 xp.
And then:
[Round 1] Your Bone Golem begins to advance upon her Wood Golem while her Wood Golem begins to advance upon your Bone Golem. Both combatants are out of range with about 40 feet between them.
[Round 2] Your Bone Golem continues to advance upon her Wood Golem while her Wood Golem closes to melee with your Bone Golem.
Your Bone Golem attacks with its fist and misses 6 times, but also hits the right hand (12 dmg), the right arm (12 dmg), the chest (15 dmg), the chest (15 dmg) and the pelvis (16 dmg).
Her Wood Golem attacks with its fist and misses 6 times, but also hits the left arm (4 dmg), the chest (3 dmg) and the chest (3 dmg).
[Round 3] Her Wood Golem attacks with its fist and misses once, but also hits the chest (3 dmg) and the right leg (4 dmg).
Your Bone Golem attacks with its fist and misses 4 times, but also hits the chest (15 dmg), the left hand (12 dmg), the right leg (15 dmg) and the right arm (15 dmg). The right arm splinters and snaps in half before sailing through the air! The left hand splinters and snaps in half before sailing through the air! The chest is effectively vaporized in an explosion of wooden splinters.
Her Wood Golem shuts down due to excessive damage.
Results: Bone Golem did 127 dmg while her Wood Golem did 17 dmg.
You earned 9 xp and Panili earned 1 xp. |
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| Delano Posts: 37
Location: Mallow
Magus Age: 141 years old
| Message #1902 Posted: Apr 27, 2008, 11:00 pm |
| Looks right to me. :) Meet my one armed demon. ^_^ |
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| FatherLatour Posts: 160
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 130 years old
Real Name: Jean
Email: FatherLatour@gmail.com
| Message #1904 Posted: Apr 27, 2008, 11:34 pm |
Good to see my strategies getting some attention. :) I've been studying the numbers for a while and figured out how to get that to work pretty reliably, then passed it on to Delano so he could give me some fight data. You really shouldn't be complaining, next to some of the other people we fought.
We count a victory as knocking off the head, or the pelvis of a golem using a one armed bone golem. Delano's is level one. Mine is level two. I don't know what a loss would be, but it certainly hasn't happened yet. ;)
Delano's score:
2 Stone
1 Clay
3 Wood
My score:
2 Iron
1 Stone
2 Clay
1 Wood
Netting us:
16 Iron Studs
3 Iron Bands
1 Light Iron Plate
1 Ruby Eye
3 Emerald Eyes, and
2 Crystal Eyes
All since the 25th. ^_^
(P.S. You have no idea how awesome this has made me feel.)Last Edited: Apr 27, 2008, 11:37 pm |
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| Sterling Posts: 157
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 119 years old
| Message #1905 Posted: Apr 28, 2008, 1:27 am |
| I dunno how cheerful you should be about exploiting a game that's still in beta and still needs a lot of tuning. As I posted before, the chart alone clearly demonstrates that bone golems are broken. Last Edited: Apr 28, 2008, 1:29 am |
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| FatherLatour Posts: 160
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 130 years old
Real Name: Jean
Email: FatherLatour@gmail.com
| Message #1907 Posted: Apr 28, 2008, 1:37 am |
Psssshew... *Deflate*
You've got a point. :-\ Until weapons come out, I think. Bone and glass are both fast and high natural attack, and thus rock the pre-weapon world. Once we get some actually equipment on our shoulders, I imagine things will lean to favor Clays, and other heavy golem types.
But for now, use what works. Ark will see what we're doing, and if he sees people running around with one armed bone golems as not the direction he wants to take the game, he'll make the changes we need. ^^ |
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PeggaPosts: 702 Location: Jaaron Magus Age: 122 years old Clan: ADV | Message #1912 Posted: Apr 28, 2008, 2:20 am |
| Okay, I have to ask. Why just a one armed bone golem? Just so you don't completely decimate the opponent? |
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| FatherLatour Posts: 160
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 130 years old
Real Name: Jean
Email: FatherLatour@gmail.com
| Message #1914 Posted: Apr 28, 2008, 2:56 am |
| No, you still fight just as well with one arm. But, bone golems don't have a high enough carrying capacity to armor themselves completely. It works out much better if you have those two less parts to worry about. |
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| Bajeesus Posts: 6
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 135 years old
| Message #1928 Posted: Apr 28, 2008, 11:24 am |
[Round 1] Your Gas Golem begins to slosh through the muck towards his Iron Golem while his Iron Golem begins to slosh through the muck towards your Gas Golem. Both combatants are out of range with about 34 feet between them.
[Round 2] Your Gas Golem continues to slosh through the muck towards his Iron Golem while his Iron Golem closes to melee with your Gas Golem.
His Iron Golem attacks with its fist and hits once on the abdomen (12 dmg).
Your Gas Golem attacks with its fist and misses 4 times, but also hits the chest (16 dmg), the chest (20 dmg), the abdomen (20 dmg), the pelvis (19 dmg), the right leg (20 dmg), the head (15 dmg), the chest (18 dmg), the head (20 dmg), the pelvis (17 dmg), the left leg (20 dmg), the chest (21 dmg), the left hand (19 dmg), the chest (21 dmg), the chest (19 dmg) and the right leg (20 dmg).
[Round 3]
Your Gas Golem attacks with its fist and misses 4 times, but also hits the chest (21 dmg), the left leg (19 dmg), the left arm (36 dmg -- CRITICAL HIT!), the head (16 dmg), the chest (15 dmg), the pelvis (15 dmg), the right leg (19 dmg), the left leg (20 dmg) and the left leg (18 dmg). The left leg falls off and hits the ground with a dull *CLANG*!
[Round 4]
Your Gas Golem attacks with its fist and misses 2 times, but also hits the pelvis (20 dmg), the head (19 dmg), the abdomen (18 dmg), the pelvis (18 dmg), the pelvis (18 dmg), the right arm (15 dmg), the chest (19 dmg), the abdomen (38 dmg -- CRITICAL HIT!) and the chest (16 dmg). The head falls off and hits the ground with a dull *CLANG*! The pelvis falls off and hits the ground with a dull *CLANG*! The golem topples over.
His Iron Golem's top half sprawls on the ground, unable to stand. This fight is over.
Results: Gas Golem did 645 dmg while his Iron Golem did 12 dmg.
The defender lost its iron scales, iron scales, emerald eyes and light iron plate.
You earned 1 xp and Bajeesus earned 9 xp.
Your golem will be back at your workshop in 2 min 37 sec.
Looted: Your golem has raided 30 balls of stone, 30 urns of clay, 30 cords of wood and 30 cages of flesh from Bajeesus's workshop.
Wtf?!
level 8 wall to boot
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laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 113 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #1940 Posted: Apr 28, 2008, 5:46 pm |
| Last night I let an arm be knocked off my bone golem to replace it with iron. I got the arm back on, but while I was making the hand I did some combat with a yeti, and it seems like I am way better off leaving it without that hand. It seems like a golem with 2 arms and 2 hands should do better at combat and carrying than a golem with only one, doesn't it? But this really appears not to be the case. I would think a one armed golem should lose around 30-50% of its carry weight and damage capacity. |
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| zetrader Posts: 12
Location: Feldspar
Magus Age: 118 years old
| Message #1957 Posted: Apr 29, 2008, 1:05 am |
I think Arkham made the walls next to useless. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bug right now that meant they do nothing or next to noghting. Considering a level 8 is supposed to apply a '48%' bonus, and that your results are not uncommon, yeah...
I dunno, there are so many threads on the forums about combat tuning, but nothing is being said or done since he changed glass golems - which didn't seem to balance them it just meant people lose XP when attack with them now (which there is an exploit to avoid anyway) |
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| FatherLatour Posts: 160
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 130 years old
Real Name: Jean
Email: FatherLatour@gmail.com
| Message #1962 Posted: Apr 29, 2008, 2:01 am |
Walls do a ton. If Bajeesus had been the attacker against that 'Gas' Golem instead of the defender, combat would have ended a whole round earlier.
Walls do give you a 30-50% bonus, whatever they say. If you and your opponent were both going to do a hundred damage, they'll bring you up to 120 and your opponent down to 80. It's just that the margin of loss is usually 70-1000%. Bajeesus was clearly beaten by an order of magnitude. Perhaps if he had had a level 500 wall the match would have been closer, but what what he needs is a better golem, not a better wall.
PS
As a matter of interest, I can't beat Gas Golem either. *shrug* There's always a bigger fish.Last Edited: Apr 29, 2008, 2:24 am |
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| Enoch Posts: 43
Location: Dethsfell Rest
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #1963 Posted: Apr 29, 2008, 2:11 am |
| Amen Latour. |
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| Sterling Posts: 157
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 119 years old
| Message #1975 Posted: Apr 29, 2008, 9:48 pm |
The glass golem hit 75% of the time on its first round of attacks. Exactly WHERE are you seeing a 48% defense bonus coming into play?
A defense bonus means the damn thing should hit less. Say hmmm, 50% less? Hitting 75% of the time, while perhaps was some lucky rolls, is not uncommon for glass golems.
I've been saying it for a while, but the game is very, very badly tuned. Either Iron golems should be level 3, not 6, or glass golems should be level 16 or something (and have costs, research requirements, etc, to match, which was not updated with the 'tweak')
Right now, the game has lots of tuning issues - here are the ones I see as a big problem
Bone golems - too strong for their level in PVP
Strong and Iron - too weak for their level in PVP
Glass and Copper - too strong for their level in PVP
Attacker vs Defender - Attacker has too many advantages, especially with the extra info.
PvP in general - Too tilted in the favor of high end players. No reason for them not to pick on the mid-level players if they're bored. (Btw, too many people are bored)
Higher level golems - Waste of motivation to use in PvE
XP/Monster Curve - Doesn't reward getting better golems/stuff
Jobs - Everyone is too dependant on jobs and not other activities for the bulk of their money
Oh, and one more I guess I should add
XP system completely exploitable with multiple accounts ;)Last Edited: Apr 29, 2008, 10:16 pm |
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TzadkielPosts: 596 Location: Broukendale Magus Age: 123 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #1977 Posted: Apr 29, 2008, 10:15 pm |
| um, what he said. (actually, every word) |
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| FatherLatour Posts: 160
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 130 years old
Real Name: Jean
Email: FatherLatour@gmail.com
| Message #1984 Posted: Apr 29, 2008, 11:40 pm |
| Sterling keeps being too right about things. :-\ It's disconcerting. |
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| Nageya Posts: 86
Location: Asylum
Magus Age: 111 years old
| Message #1985 Posted: Apr 30, 2008, 12:00 am |
I think bone and glass golems are more a problem of being able to bring out their full potential at a lower level, the main advantage of the clay stone and iron golems is their weight capacity.
an iron golem with light iron plate will take only minimum damage from a bone golem and because of it's low weight the best power source a glass golem can use is a voidstone which is only a level 2 power source.
Because of their expense in creation and research most people only use low level items on their golems so golems who's weak point is that their capacity is too low to equip high level items have an advantage |
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| Sterling Posts: 157
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 119 years old
| Message #1986 Posted: Apr 30, 2008, 12:14 am |
| Nageya said:
I think bone and glass golems are more a problem of being able to bring out their full potential at a lower level, the main advantage of the clay stone and iron golems is their weight capacity.
an iron golem with light iron plate will take only minimum damage from a bone golem and because of it's low weight the best power source a glass golem can use is a voidstone which is only a level 2 power source.
Because of their expense in creation and research most people only use low level items on their golems so golems who's weak point is that their capacity is too low to equip high level items have an advantage
That's true to an extent. But "Good" items are so much more costly than golems, even the expensive kind. Covering a golem in good armor like light or medium iron plate can cost you in gold 10x to 20x the cost of the resources to build it (since most resources currently trade at a 1:20 ratio to gold)
And because they swing slowly, good powerstones don't help the stone and iron type as much as they help bone and glass.
Even if you did have good armor on an iron golem, a glass golem dodges almost all its attacks, plus it does slice damage, which is the best 'standard' damage for penetrating armor. And a Copper golem pretty much ignores all regular armor. If you knew you were facing one, and put on copper banding, it wouldn't help that much.
It's (yet another) bad balancing issue for iron/stone - their damage output is all bludgeon, which is the easiest to protect against - it's very easy to armor up a bone golem against them, harder to armor the iron against the bone, perversely.
Finally, even if you DID armor up a golem, on defense that just makes you more of a target, as soon as someone learns that you armor your golems, they'll go after you even harder to salvage as much as they can - which is easy, using a glass or a copper. Of course, it makes sense for an attack to armor up and put on his best equipment - since he knows EXACTLY what he's facing (other than armor, which doesn't matter for this purpose) he knows whether his target is likely to knock anything off. And if the target can knock anything off - he's free to choose another target.Last Edited: Apr 30, 2008, 2:11 am |
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| FatherLatour Posts: 160
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 130 years old
Real Name: Jean
Email: FatherLatour@gmail.com
| Message #1999 Posted: Apr 30, 2008, 2:57 pm |
| Well, would you look at that, across the board high end damage reduction. :P That should help, quite a bit. |
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TzadkielPosts: 596 Location: Broukendale Magus Age: 123 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #2000 Posted: Apr 30, 2008, 3:54 pm |
just thinking while on the road - does my PowerSource really increase my speed? or just give me more energy. (I think it should increase speed)
I am "eh" about the raised motivation cost for larger golems - but give me a monster to fight. A level 3 clay golem gets zero ex for the Bog mummy and can't (almost) deal enough damage to defeat the gray ogre. What can he fight?
So yeah, I want more motivation - but I also want more baddies. |
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| Nageya Posts: 86
Location: Asylum
Magus Age: 111 years old
| Message #2004 Posted: Apr 30, 2008, 5:34 pm |
| I'd use a lvl 1 clay with lvl 3 parts theres not really a difference in combat ability between levels other then slots and hp and you can get those advantages by putting the lvl 3 parts on a lvl 1 golem and with the lvl 1 you'd still get exp |
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