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Darghelm, in the Foothills of Ulvania
The hardy people of Ulvania value family bonds and friends over all else, so Darghelm has developed an extensive network of taverns, cozy inns, and messaging systems. They are not a cowardly nor xenophobic people and so allow people from all over the continent to use their taverns and speakeasy establishments.
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Index » Muelsfell Game Forum » Clan Discussions Muelsfell World v1.0 Forums
AuthorThread: Selling Clan Items
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CommComms
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Posts: 392
Location: Daylsfeld
Magus Age: 106 years old
Message #19773 Posted: Dec 11, 2008, 7:06 pm
For the record, I dislike the idea of cutting off what items a clan can or can't sell. Maybe as an alternative, throw in a tax, like 25-50% of the item's sell price that goes to the government if you're selling your top-tier items, but the tax is lowered by 10-20% of itself for every tier below your max library level it is.

For clarification: So I have a clan with a level 4 library and I'm selling a spiked chain. I put it in the market for 100,000 gold, and when it sells I get 50,000 gold and the other 50,000 gold disappears. Then my friend, say his name is Koyne, runs a clan with a level 6 library. He puts a spiked chain on the market for 100,000 gold, and he gets 60,000 gold while only 40,000 disappears. These numbers use the 50% tax and 10% tax reduction per library level above the one required.

This would help limit the sellability of higher-tech items, while still allowing them to be sold.
DemonDurai
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Posts: 92
Location: Jaaron
Magus Age: 97 years old
Message #19791 Posted: Dec 11, 2008, 8:27 pm
That idea in my opinion would be ineffective because it would simple increase the value of the items for sale on the market, making it more expensive for the buyer.

Since the average level of the players in Muelsfell is rising, the average amount of money in the kitty increases.

DD
CommComms
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Posts: 392
Location: Daylsfeld
Magus Age: 106 years old
Message #19793 Posted: Dec 11, 2008, 8:44 pm
That was exactly the point.

But now that I've thought about it again, that system would probably lead to people getting around the tax by selling items on the cheap to someone else, then reselling them for a much higher-tax free price.

A better idea: Add a flat 50,000 gold coin tax to any clan item sale, then subtract 10,000 gold from that tax for every tech level below the highest level of the clan that's selling it. I.E. if a clan with a level 6 library were selling a level 4 item then the tax would only be 30,000 gold, and there would be no tax if they were selling a level 1 item.

The whole charging extra money idea may not be the best one, but I like it better than the just cutting off what level you can sell things at idea. I'm throwing it out here with the hope that someone else will elaborate on it and make it into a good idea rather than a quick thought.
Halftea
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Posts: 1307
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 118 years old
Clan: ADV
Website: Click Here
Message #19810 Posted: Dec 11, 2008, 11:22 pm
While the current status is that the average level of players is rising, I would hope there would be a lot of new blood when Kep takes it out of Beta, so that may not remain a given.

A problem with the 50k flat tax is that it would really crimp the newer Clans - making them non-competitive - while benefiting the older Clans. If a new level 1 Clan sold a level 1 item, for say 1 gp, add the tax and since it is at their highest library level, it would go for 50,001 gp. Have your earlier mentioned Clan with a level 6 library sell the same level 1 item for 1 gp, and it will sell for 1 gp. So the ability to sell items to help the Clan would only work for the larger, more developed Clans who probably don't really need the help. Doesn't really matter what the amount of tax is, the ratios would always penalize lower level Clans.

I'm not sure having a tax would be beneficial at all, since it doesn't actually fund anything real in game. And honestly, I think selling everything available to the Clan dilutes the purpose of a Clan. After all, once Kep gets around to Families, he stated they are able to provide a guardian golem.

I know that's not a solution to being able to make all items available to everyone, but that's kind of why we can't max every research tree in our Libraries or Spellbooks.

edit: For comprehension as my grammar was sadly lacking :(
Last Edited: Dec 11, 2008, 11:28 pm
Haruna
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Posts: 471
Location: Jinkara
Magus Age: 103 years old
Message #19832 Posted: Dec 12, 2008, 4:39 am
We could also just base said tax on the Item level period.
We could do it at (2^i)x500 where i=Item Level
Which would set the tax at
Level 1 = 1000 gp
Level 2 = 2000 gp
Level 3 = 4000 gp
Level 4 = 8000 gp
Level 5 = 16000 gp
Level 6 = 32000 gp
Level 7 = 64000 gp
Level 8 = 128000 gp
Level 9 = 256000 gp
Level 10 = 512000 gp
Which means low level items are relatively cheap, and the higher you go up the research-tree the more costly it gets to sell. Perhaps in some cases, like with ammunition, the tax could be (2^i)x50, as they get used up rather quickly.

For an example:
Weapon - Bronze Cannons are Level 7, Roughly 20k gp for materials and standard markup, 64k gp tax, making a total of 84k gp for a weapon that overpowers most defenses.
Ammuntion - Cannonballs are Level 6, Roughly 1.2k gp for materials and standard markup, 3.2k gp tax, making a total of 4.4k gp for 5 shots with said weapon.

It gets expensive, as you can see, to grab higher level items. With ranged weapon in particular, one needs to purchase ammunition to keep said weapons active and useful.

But that's just a crazy idea I've just developed. On a side note, a level 20 item would cost 524288000 gp. So that could become a limiter for the really high items as well.

Editted for spelling and formulaic accuracy
Last Edited: Dec 12, 2008, 8:37 am
Necaria
Posts: 505
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 101 years old
Clan: OASIS
Message #19846 Posted: Dec 12, 2008, 5:34 am
Personally I'd like to be able to sell them for any resource, or maybe even multiple resources, not just money.
Haruna
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Posts: 471
Location: Jinkara
Magus Age: 103 years old
Message #19866 Posted: Dec 12, 2008, 8:35 am
One could always convert the cost to the market value of the resources?
CommComms
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Posts: 392
Location: Daylsfeld
Magus Age: 106 years old
Message #19877 Posted: Dec 12, 2008, 10:47 am
Yeah, Haruna's idea was my next one, and the next logical step. The tax money could go to the theoretical lottery... Or some of it. I like the idea of some money being taken out of the system. As it it's almost hard for money to "disappear."

I assume you'd be able to put the trade up for any resource, not just money. Money is just an easy example that retains a relatively constant value.
Haruna
Haruna's Avatar
Posts: 471
Location: Jinkara
Magus Age: 103 years old
Message #19880 Posted: Dec 12, 2008, 11:04 am
The 'tax' could also be used to fund other adventures, mayhaps it will help reopen the lake, or maybe to help Remy buy some medicine for his camels. Or mayhaps there will be a festival of some sort, where one can become more motivated, when a certain amount of money is collected
Nanashi
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Posts: 1115
Location: Asylum
Magus Age: 105 years old
Clan: OTAKU
Message #19915 Posted: Dec 12, 2008, 5:26 pm
Not to mention, someone needs to pay the Dimitrian guards. Otherwise, they might pose as competition for NWO in the mercenary trade.
Magstrom
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Posts: 103
Location: Asylum
Magus Age: 98 years old
Real Name: Josh
Message #26192 Posted: Feb 23, 2009, 5:18 pm
I do realize this is a somewhat old thread but you could just start with making clan items avaliable for sale/trade with other clans only(C2C, Clan2Clan), and not to the individual magi from a clan(C2M). This way the items still belong to a clan are still unique in their own way, there are in limited supply, clans of higher levels/ranks aren't likely to trade off their new/best items to anyone, and you could new elements to the clan alliance system with trade embargoes, tariffs, etc.

In short, have the items be traded solely between clans, making the item(s) property of the clan it's being traded/sold to and include a couple trade agreements that can be made between clans to make clan policies and alliances more interesting.
Rednaxela
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Posts: 177
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 105 years old
Message #26201 Posted: Feb 23, 2009, 7:04 pm
Magstrom said:
...
you could just start with making clan items avaliable for sale/trade with other clans only(C2C, Clan2Clan), and not to the individual magi from a clan(C2M)


Strongly agreed! I was pondering something similar myself, and I imagine would be far less work for Kep to implement than C2M too!
Echothrice
Echothrice's Avatar
Posts: 98
Location: Villuno
Magus Age: 102 years old
Message #26204 Posted: Feb 23, 2009, 8:34 pm
The "problem" with this would be that you have to join a clan in order to use and obtain clan weapons(Not really a problem, read the sarcasm).

Another problem is that multi-clanning once again becomes something to fear. As OTAKU was sortof doing previously, this could be utilized to ensure that a clan can have access to whatever they want, with the items passed on the cheap between the clans. This could maybe be alleviated by setting a minimum price on clan items, equal to clan item price +50%, where that 50% goes to the Agoroshian Magus Cabal. The SM's of the clans could be the only ones to trade items, and this direct trade would be a matter of resources being exchanged for a single item, or possibly set up some sort of mass transfer system for this purpose.

Along a similar vein, it might be nice for clans to trade vast quantites of resources between them. Perhaps a tax or tariff is imposed on this as well.
Tzadkiel
Tzadkiel's Avatar
Posts: 596
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 109 years old
Clan: OTAKU
Message #26249 Posted: Feb 24, 2009, 2:19 pm
perhaps this will also finally allow the SM's access to the clan stores directly. If I can buy a ranged weapon with clan IRON, I should also be able to hand clan iron to a level 3 n00b.
Dilt
Dilt's Avatar
Posts: 167
Location: Fellin
Magus Age: 98 years old
Message #26269 Posted: Feb 24, 2009, 6:26 pm
Small note, taxes wouldn't really help. It'd just inflate the value of money, and the only ones who could afford the cost would be people with high amount of moti to scrap golems. I say let the clans have full control of the stuff. If a clan wants to split up for more items in the clan's dominion, let them. Just remember that the other clan would then be out of your control if there's a revolt or something, and that it's frowned upon in Senate.
Kaelas
Kaelas's Avatar
Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 104 years old
Real Name: Barry
Message #26390 Posted: Feb 26, 2009, 1:15 am
I'd suggest some kind of limit to it. Maybe start up a treaty system for the Clans, a trade treaty formost? Each trade treaty would allow one exchange (item for item or item for resouces) between two Clans. And the number of treaties each clan could have would be tied to a Clan building. Great Hall or Library make RP sense but they already do so much I'd like for something else to get it.

Armory, as the place of production, might work. Or we could either have a new building added or allow the Transfer Office to be leveled up (renamed as Trade Office or something).
Magstrom
Magstrom's Avatar
Posts: 103
Location: Asylum
Magus Age: 98 years old
Real Name: Josh
Message #27015 Posted: Mar 8, 2009, 8:28 am
The idea of leveling up the Transfer Office to Trade Office would work nicely, and of course only the SM's would be the one's initiating and fulfilling the trades between clans. If this would also allow for the SM to hand out resources to the clan members who need them or who accidentally added a extra zero to their clan donation, then that would be very beneficial.

As for items "cheaply" being traded between clans, I don't think that's likely to happen due to the resources being put into leveling all the buildings needed to get to the good items, not to mention the resources for building the items and the time it takes for the items be made if there's not a stock pile of them.

Having a single "trade treaty" for each trade seems time consuming. It would make more sense just to stick to trade embargoes between clans, i.e. Clan A and Clan B agree not to trade with Clan C.

To help curb item flooding and getting trade embargos, I bet it could be made so that Clan B can't trade the items from Clan A to Clan D, but could only return them to Clan A if they wanted to get rid of them. Or make that optional with some sort of Exclusivity Pact between clans.
drackmore
drackmore's Avatar
Posts: 234
Location: Zion's Reach
Magus Age: 95 years old
Real Name: Gino Drake
Message #29930 Posted: Apr 25, 2009, 4:44 pm
how about an alliance system clans all sovermagistrate must agree and it would allow the two clans to trade items throught the transfer office but they can see anything about that clan except who they are at war with
 
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