| Author | Thread: Animate Dead |
[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #20247 Posted: Dec 16, 2008, 8:52 pm |
I'm waffling on this spell, so figured I may as well bring my thoughts to those that will be using it. :)
Currently: clan only, 40 motivation, must be evil, spell req: Death Strike, creates a level 1 Bone Golem.
This spell is going to be tweaked. I've already decided to remove the spell requirement but keep it an evil clan only spell; those are givens.
My first impulse was to lower the motivation cost somewhat and scale the golem created based on the caster, so a magus under 5th level would only get a Level 1 Bone Golem whereas a level 25+ magus would get a Level 5 Bone Golem.
While I like that general plan, I'm unsure what motivation cost says "mostly useful" without saying "easy salvage fodder."
So there it is, for your feedback.
Kep |
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| Sconibulus Posts: 664
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #20248 Posted: Dec 16, 2008, 8:57 pm |
I think motivation for a golem is going to end up being unuseful almost regardless, unless it came with a minor strength boost...
Ooh, maybe Animate Dead gets cast on a golem, and activates for the next combat, but only the next combat. Then, in the event of a kill (so it would be rare, or PvE monsters) you get a bone golem of level EnemyECL/2, with a natural strength of EnemyStrength/3? (Which I think would give ~25 for the giant, or ~35 for the bonewalker)
I think a good motivation cost for a spell like that would be 25-30, and it fits the name Animate Dead pretty well.Last Edited: Dec 16, 2008, 9:14 pm |
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| Dedd Posts: 302
Location: Shilo Steppe
Magus Age: 118 years old
| Message #20275 Posted: Dec 16, 2008, 11:14 pm |
The main question you have to ask is why you would waste motivation on creating a bone golem when bone is so abundant that (so long as you or someone you know has the research) you can just make one without wasting motivation. Remember motivation = xp = valuable resource. Bone = almost valueless (in fact I give it away for free!).
Sconibulus' suggestion is one that could be more workable - that or the spell turns the golem into a bone golem so it has an increase in speed (but other reductions)? |
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| DemonDurai Posts: 92
Location: Jaaron
Magus Age: 111 years old
| Message #20320 Posted: Dec 17, 2008, 10:19 am |
I point out before on another thread that motivation cost will become less of an issue when the game gets older.
Does it have to be a Bone Golem? why not something else, rather unique type of bone golem that comes with the spell. It could be the Skeleton of a mountain giant with rather unique effects that last X amount of fights before vanishing back to dust. It would make the motivation cost worth while.
DDLast Edited: Dec 17, 2008, 10:21 am |
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| Dedd Posts: 302
Location: Shilo Steppe
Magus Age: 118 years old
| Message #20329 Posted: Dec 17, 2008, 11:30 am |
| That idea definitely has some legs... |
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NecariaPosts: 505 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 115 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #20352 Posted: Dec 17, 2008, 6:13 pm |
Motivation will be an issue for a looong time. With maximum gains(not counting xp from being attacked)and only spending it on leveling, it would take roughly 4 years to get from level 50(which no-one has actually reached yet) to level 250 which you pasted as your example for motivation not being an issue eventually.
Now, actually on topic. Would require new code probably, but what about a stronger golem that's temporary? Could even get fancy and have the type depend on level, or area, or make it so it's a 1 shot effect that animates the next living thing you kill as an undead monstrosity. So you can use it on offense and defense for the duration of the spell, and then it vanishes dropping equipped items back into storage. If destroyed before then it would be the same as a regular golem being destroyed. |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #20362 Posted: Dec 17, 2008, 8:52 pm |
A planned spell Dance of the Dead was going to work in a way very similar to what you outlined, Necaria. There were some big problems getting the golem to behave "temporarily" while being absolutely sure the system wasn't going to kill someone's "real" golem by mistake, so I put it on hold. I'd still like to do that, just not right now.
Plus I'm not keen on releasing higher level Necromancies until we get the lower ones settled.
Let me outline the three main advantages I saw with Animate Dead:
1) Instant golem. Without the gnomish tools, it takes ~50m to build a bone level 1 torso and ~25m per location. That's shy of 3 hours 45m to make a complete level 1 bone. At level 20, motivation returns at 10/hour (you can probably see how I based the 40 motivation cost).
2) No research requirement; it can create a bone golem even if you've used your research for something else entirely.
3) Quick cash; create a bone golem, send it to the salvage yard.
It seems that this is not enough to make the spell even situationally useful. I'm pondering Sconi's strength improvement suggestion; changes probably around the weekend after I've had time to think on it. Thanks for the feedback. Feel free to add other thoughts and ideas as they come. :)
Kep |
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| Astros Posts: 40
Location: Last Alvia Dawning
Magus Age: 113 years old
| Message #20849 Posted: Dec 23, 2008, 10:18 pm |
Actually I like the spell as it seems to be heading since you can convert 50ish motivation into about 2.5-3k gold. I do think that the cost is a little bit high on it still and making a lvl 1 golem is nearly useless. I think that any strength boosts based on what you kill would be quickly taken advantage of and unbalance the strength system. A flat strength boost wouldn't be bad or even one based on caster lvl may work. Alternately have it come with elephant strength already cast on it so it is extra strong for a time.
I really like the idea of a temporary golem based on what you kill that would probably just be a big dumb defender for some amount of time. |
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| Haruna Posts: 471
Location: Jinkara
Magus Age: 117 years old
| Message #20876 Posted: Dec 24, 2008, 7:43 am |
One could also just make it a new type of golem and not bone, with inherent powersource and eyes that, along with the strength, are based on the caster's level/Motivation put in/Some form of regent involved?.
Or have it have multiple forms/levels, each one unlocked by a quest, but still only utilizing one spell slot.
Make the new type of golem unrepairable by normal means, but regenerates when it kills a target monster/golem.
And have it being incapable of being modified, aside from spells, ie no slots. Or to just have slots on the hands to hold weaponry?
There's a few cents for the pot. |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #21771 Posted: Jan 5, 2009, 6:33 pm |
This change totally slipped my mind during the holidays.
Animate Dead has been reduced to 25 motivation and now creates a golem of level dependent on your level (1 per 5, so a 10th level magus makes a lvl 2 bone).
Some of the other ideas are quite good, but a bit complex to easily incorporate. I'll sit and think on those a bit longer.
Kep |
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laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 113 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #27054 Posted: Mar 9, 2009, 7:08 pm |
| On the clan library page it still says this spell "Creates a level one bone golem." |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #27726 Posted: Mar 19, 2009, 3:10 pm |
Sorry, I'd fixed that in Dev and apparently forgot to roll in the change.
Kep |
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| Shuja Posts: 23
Location: Arzenbourg
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #29445 Posted: Apr 17, 2009, 9:58 pm |
A possible functionality change to make this spell more appealing might be to have it similar to "Summon Rat"/etc and have the golem step in as a defender automatically... maybe it happens if the golem on duty is destroyed [your spell 'raises' the dead golem?] and it could create a golem with level based on the EGL of the dying golem.
It would be neat also if it gave the golem armor and/or strength if the EGL was high enough; put a level 5 addy outside your workshop, if it dies get a level 5 bone golem with 50 str and light plates on its chest/abs/pelvis or something.
Anyhow, something to mull over. :)
Edit: you could even have the created golem step in as soon as the combat round after the other golem is destroyed -- it would make attacking higher level golems much riskier and could help with the rash of Flesh 1 defenders we're having. If you attack a level 5 addy and destroy it, the level 5 bone that spawns may very well destroy the attacking golem?
*shrug*Last Edited: Apr 17, 2009, 10:02 pm |
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