| Author | Thread: Clan taxation | 1 | Page 2 |
| Endovior Posts: 172
Location: Nournsland
Magus Age: 118 years old
| Message #2430 Posted: May 13, 2008, 4:23 am |
| If you think about it, there's no difference. A clan could just as easily be a 'high resource donation' club specifically to evade the resource cap, or to multi while evading detection. Neither is acceptable, and both are as problematic as high individual resource donation. |
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| Poseidon Posts: 241
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 114 years old
Real Name: Jack Website: Click HereEmail: kingclown00@hotmail.com | Message #2431 Posted: May 13, 2008, 4:28 am |
Easy to dodge, set the maximum tax rate at something low, like 20%.
The tax isn't meant to be the sole thing that keeps the clan running, its meant to keep the clan from bickering amongst itself on who is and isn't doing their part. |
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| Sterling Posts: 157
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #2432 Posted: May 13, 2008, 7:11 am |
Besides, someone would have to get a lot of premium alts together to really \'farm\' this system - plus that\'d be really silly. can just as easily donate the material.
Really, if the system were 1% abusable (and not game breakingly so) and 99% useful, that\'s worth it. However, as it\'s been pointed out, it\'s also easy to make it 0% abuseable. Last Edited: May 13, 2008, 7:13 am |
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| FatherLatour Posts: 160
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 131 years old
Real Name: Jean
Email: FatherLatour@gmail.com
| Message #2436 Posted: May 13, 2008, 8:00 am |
Nothing in this game is 0% abusable. You of all people should know that, Sterling.
But, as my brother said, we don't really care about abuse. What we care about is automating something which you should be doing yourself. There are lots of things which we all would agree would be useful which would not be good ideas to put in.
Wouldn't it be useful to be able to set an option to repair your golem by a certain amount after every fight?
Yes, that would save us all tons of clicks, and grief over repairs we were too flaky to do.
Would that be a good idea? No.
1) It's your job, do it yourself.
2) And more subtly... You need to be able to control your resources on a moment by moment basis. It doesn't matter if you agreed to it before hand, or it's reasonable, at some point when you're a hundred bones away from a new library, you're going to wish they had left that two damage on your golem. |
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| Endovior Posts: 172
Location: Nournsland
Magus Age: 118 years old
| Message #2438 Posted: May 13, 2008, 2:50 pm |
| Sterling said:
Besides, someone would have to get a lot of premium alts together to really \'farm\' this system - plus that\'d be really silly. can just as easily donate the material.
Really, if the system were 1% abusable (and not game breakingly so) and 99% useful, that\'s worth it. However, as it\'s been pointed out, it\'s also easy to make it 0% abuseable.
Who says they have to be premium alts? Regular, non-premium alts can still contribute. Given the ease of doing this under any kind of automation, that's unacceptable, as automated donation waltzes right past multi detection. |
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| Sterling Posts: 157
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #2445 Posted: May 13, 2008, 5:19 pm |
| I thought Arkham said he was going to make it so that non-premie alts could not join the same guild, but he only said he was considering it, n/m |
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| Nageya Posts: 86
Location: Asylum
Magus Age: 112 years old
| Message #2449 Posted: May 13, 2008, 9:04 pm |
| Also there's a limit to how many people can join a guild and unless you spend a whole lot of time on an alt acount it won't even give a 1/10th of what an extablished player would and if your going to spend enough time on an alt to make it worth adding to the guild then it isn't much harder to simply manually donate |
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| FatherLatour Posts: 160
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 131 years old
Real Name: Jean
Email: FatherLatour@gmail.com
| Message #2451 Posted: May 13, 2008, 9:46 pm |
| Hey, you're right, it isn't much harder to manually donate! I don't know why I didn't think of that! *head pound* |
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| Sterling Posts: 157
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #2452 Posted: May 13, 2008, 11:42 pm |
| And the point of the feature is not to make it easier to donate, it's to make it easier to make sure everyone is contributing. |
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| FatherLatour Posts: 160
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 131 years old
Real Name: Jean
Email: FatherLatour@gmail.com
| Message #2453 Posted: May 14, 2008, 1:57 am |
*sigh* Okay. What if you want some people not to have to give as much, say because they're new and developing? What if somebody is doing what we're supposed to do in this game and contributing some specialized product instead of resources? What if you really do want to ride the system and give excuses about why you're not paying until the leaders' patience runs out(Hey, I don't tell people how to play the game)?
There are no good solution to these situation which involve your idea, which means when these choices come to us we'll either be ignoring the feature, or making a decisions which aren't optimal because the feature just makes it easier.Last Edited: May 14, 2008, 1:59 am |
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| Sterling Posts: 157
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #2456 Posted: May 14, 2008, 5:05 am |
A: If I wanted a newbie to have to contribute less, or progress faster, I'd give them stuff. Happens all the time in other games of this nature.
B: They trade it in for goods back, there will be a clan trading system.
C: And I see, this is why you don't want the clan taxation system. :) Well, hey, I want it exactly because I don't want freeloaders in my clan. That's not 'fun gameplay' for most people, just for the freeloader. Same reason I wouldn't want to allow the clan to be stolen from. Fun for the thief, maybe, not fun for the clan.
I would say there are GREAT solutions to all of the issues you bring up, that involve far less hassle than the "I must check everyones contributions every week to see who's put in what and nag those who haven't contributed a fair share" |
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| FatherLatour Posts: 160
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 131 years old
Real Name: Jean
Email: FatherLatour@gmail.com
| Message #2458 Posted: May 14, 2008, 5:23 am |
| Hey, conflict is the spice of life. ;) When a few people don't play nice, everybody wins! Then you get to play the game of "Shit, I have to protect my shit!" :P |
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ZugZugPosts: 300 Location: Ibonbourg Magus Age: 119 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #2469 Posted: May 14, 2008, 1:28 pm |
I guess I'll weigh in. I'm highly against clan taxation. There will be times when I'm capped and can donate a bunch of resources. There will also be times when I'm saving up for something and cannot afford to donate anything. For example, I just spent half my resources on Library 8, so now I need to rebuild the storage up a bit. A drain on my resources like a tax would just mean that things would take longer to build (resources for) than the already lengthy time they take now.
Clans are limited to 20 people to start (still, I think). As a clan leader, just get 20 loyal people who are willing to work for the good of the clan. If people seem to be freeloading, kick them out and replace them with a more active person. People should donate to the clan because they want to better the clan. Plus, there will be a private forum. The clan leader can request certain resources for certain things and I would imagine in short time people would donate more than enough. |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #2481 Posted: May 14, 2008, 6:14 pm |
For the initial clan release, there will be no taxation, sorry. :)
Donations are visible by anyone in the clan, so the leader doesn't have to track it -- he or she can assign someone else in the clan to do it, if they want.
If I do install a taxation or tithes system for clans, it will not be automatic. It'll probably work by denying a clan member access to clan functions (items, forums, etc) until they meet the minimum donation amount for that week... or something along those lines.
In any case, something like this would be optional -- clans will not be required to use it.
However, this is not especially high on my priority list, and I expect things will change in general once clans are released.
I guess I could sum this up by saying: I'm not opposed to adding more tools for clan management, but let me get clans live first, and we'll see where we can go from there. :D
Kep |
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