| Author | Thread: Conflict background |
HalfteaPosts: 1307 Location: Darghelm Magus Age: 133 years old Clan: ADV | Message #22468 Posted: Jan 12, 2009, 3:50 am |
Well, as can plainly be seen by the war of words in the Tattler and in some other forum posts, most of the magi throughout Realms have probably got at least an inkling of the bad blood between the Sisterhood of the Avae Demma Vanaadt and the scholars/students of Magisterius University.
While we of the Sisterhood rarely speak of our activities and thoughts in public, preferring our privacy, I am making a statement that reflects my personal opinions and understandings on the matter.
The current state of affairs between our two Clans is that of an undeclared conflict of attrition. Or as one of my Sisters so aptly phrased it 'a sissy-fight'. Where they strike our personal and Clan guards, sometimes in coordinated assaults and lootings and sometimes not. Then we reply in a similar manner.
How did things get here? I can only relay our version of events, as that is all I have access to. I'm certain TOMU has their own version, although the members I talked too, aren't really sure themselves.
One of our Sisters was tired of numerous attacks against her workshop by bored students of the University. These attacks were far in excess of the expected range and destructiveness of magical tests and score farming we all see. When she decided to send a message to the perpetrators by responding back, they increased attacks and disabled her door guard. After all, the sheer cheekiness she displayed by responding! Oh, and throw in another nearby Sister or two just for good measure. After the affected Sisters responded again, they again took out guards and attacked Clan protectors as well. This then escalated to others of our nearby Sisters some of which came in response to her plea for aid, some who were uninvolved until then.
I know the vast majority of attacks began after we attacked a Clan guardian of those who had savaged their workshop. The bells of war sounded in the hallways of the University (Yes, I think they actually have a seperate set of bells for this - as they are used so frequently) and more students flocked to the cause. After all, otherwise they might have to actually study. It's much easier to gain course credit in Applied Looting and Pillaging than behavioral patterns of the Death Scavenger Beetle. And who were we to actually defend ourselves against their actions? Did we not know they are Magisterius University? It's their divine right to attack anyone they please! Or maybe that's MAGIER, Honestly the similar behaviors confuse me at times.
Regardless, that's where we find ourselves today. In conversations with TOMU, I'm told they will stop if we stop defending ourselves and take their assaults like good little victims or arrange a ceasefire/surrender. At least until their students get bored again. Because frankly, I believe all in the Realms know that will be the case, as most of their loose cannons serve as their instructors.
Do I honestly think my words will influence them? No, I don't. In fact, I do believe this post will result in even more attacks upon me. But that is the price we sometimes pay to maintain our freedoms and dignity when confronting bullies. I will not roll over and give in to this Clans actions as that is what they have shown themselves to be. A group of thugs who masquerade as scholars.
edits: Forgot to say I posted here as I didn't think any of the other posts were quite appropriate for this. Although this isn't a perfect location either.
Last Edited: Jan 12, 2009, 3:52 am |
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| Kaelas Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 118 years old
Real Name: Barry
| Message #22470 Posted: Jan 12, 2009, 4:00 am |
| We're not interested in getting into another flame war on the forums. If you want to talk, message me. |
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TzadkielPosts: 596 Location: Broukendale Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #22482 Posted: Jan 12, 2009, 5:24 am |
doesn't look like a flame war from over here (color commentary? yes). Basic failure of the in game message system to even COPY someone creates some of this conflict.
As an SM, I'd like a mechanism by which to reprimand or censure a member. All we really have is exile. :/ |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #22485 Posted: Jan 12, 2009, 6:26 am |
| Ooh, that's be very useful. |
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HalfteaPosts: 1307 Location: Darghelm Magus Age: 133 years old Clan: ADV | Message #22528 Posted: Jan 12, 2009, 7:25 pm |
@Tzadkiel Thank you for recognizing that it wasn't designed as a flaming post.
Biased color commentary? Of course it is. And for the most part, gently teasing, although at the end it does stray from that and if any readers took offense, I apologize, but that is how I feel about it. It also isn't an official statement from the Sisterhood. Opinions expressed were purely my own, which is why I emphasized the personal nature of the post up front.
But the basic facts that I laid out are still true to the best of my knowledge. I expect readers to factor in my bias when reading.
The purpose of this post was actually seeking a consolidated statement as to TOMU's understanding of this sequence of events. Because of the TOMU members I talk too, most aren't really sure how this began.
I do believe a COPY function of the in-game mail system would help in situations like this. |
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| Elsworth Posts: 93
Location: Fellin
Magus Age: 112 years old
| Message #22737 Posted: Jan 14, 2009, 4:33 am |
I'll admit there's a similar story to the conflict between between the State Alchemists and TOMU... It's easy to blame the other clan, but I wasn't entirely blameless... ;)
I have a feeling the situation might have something to do with the 'OK to attack' list that TOMU has, Sconi mentioned it to me once.
Basically if your clan is on that list, you can be attacked by TOMU members... This attack escalates as they always do, and as describe in the original post. Kaelas then says "Talk to me and we'll work something out" and you do and then someone else sees that your clan is on the 'OK to attack' list and the whole thing starts again...
Or someone doesn't notice that the skimish is over and you're back into one and trying to score points and then it escalates...
Suggest if anyone gets attacked by a clan member you let the SM of their clan know and that you will be retaliating and that you won't bring in others if they don't...
But this game has a PvP element and you have to deal with it... Just be aware that you cannot kill someone completely except by making them leave the game and I'm sure Kep isn't happy with that situation...
So try and find a line between playing the game realistically and griefing...
Just my two cents... Back to my holidays now, it's chilly down there at the moment... You wouldn't credit it.... |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #22738 Posted: Jan 14, 2009, 4:39 am |
| We don't have an "ok to attack" list. We have a "Do not attack" list. There's a big difference between a whitelist and a blacklist. However, since I'm breaking the silence, I'll just mention that we always react to our clan guards being destroyed. |
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| Elsworth Posts: 93
Location: Fellin
Magus Age: 112 years old
| Message #22747 Posted: Jan 14, 2009, 6:32 am |
My humblest apologies and yes there is a difference... ;)
Though in these circumstances a "Do not attack" list gives greater range of people to attack... But for the purposes of my speculation it makes no difference... :)
Well, reacting when clan guards get destroyed is playing the game realistically. If someone is suggesting otherwise, they might be a little silly...
Alternatively, their clan guard was destroyed first and hence their reaction is just as justified as yours...
Can you see what I'm getting at in the second paragraph... :)
E
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| Kaelas Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 118 years old
Real Name: Barry
| Message #22763 Posted: Jan 14, 2009, 12:09 pm |
Forum based talks are subject to third-party commentry and tangents about whatever happens to cross the mind of everyone and anyone that thinks they should be involved. That's a bad thing, in case that wasn't obvious. So if you have something of actual import to say, something you want an offical response to, write me a personal message.
I don't know how to make that any clearer. |
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| Elsworth Posts: 93
Location: Fellin
Magus Age: 112 years old
| Message #22879 Posted: Jan 15, 2009, 6:46 am |
You've made it clear Kaelas, and I believe my first post suggested that people being attacked should message the SM.
And just because it feels like someone is attacking (flaming) via the forums does not make the forums bad... It makes them public and subject to third party commentary and people getting involved in discussions that only tangentially involve them.
Forums are for matters of importance and the majority of posts are important to the person posting them.
Again, just because it feels like someone is attacking (flaming) via the forums does not make them unimportant...
If you are wondering why I posted those last two paragraphs, re-read Kaelas post and see how it can be interpreted as suggesting that forums are bad and that important matters can only be sent via personal message.
That was probably not his intention, but I am making the point that there is a good reason for the forums and people have a good reason to use the forums and if someone doesn't like it.... well... enough said...
Anyone who feels that my posts are personal attacks on them or their clan are free to post to the forums. My personal reasons for being 'away' means that it's hard to take it out on my workshop. |
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| deathpunk Posts: 154
Location: Nournsland
Magus Age: 117 years old
| Message #22944 Posted: Jan 15, 2009, 4:09 pm |
| plus forums are nice because they allow people that aren't involved to stay not involved if they want to. what I mean is that I had no idea that there was bad blood between TOMU and ADV before I read this thread and since I now know they are warring I'm (prolly) less likely to smash up members golems when I get bored. Not a gaurantee or anything, just saying that sometimes it's fun to watch a little clan war from the outside. |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #22961 Posted: Jan 15, 2009, 6:41 pm |
I'm pretty sure what Kaelas meant to imply was that tossing a bunch of insults our way is not the correct method of trying to get answers, rather than that all forums are obviously bad.
Deathpunk: ...you need a forum post to tell you when there's a conflict so you can stay uninvolved? Um... That's... not making much sense. |
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| Elsworth Posts: 93
Location: Fellin
Magus Age: 112 years old
| Message #22984 Posted: Jan 15, 2009, 10:08 pm |
Yamikurune,
I fail to see what insult you are referring to... I posited a scenario that seemed to make sense why my clan and ADV kept running into your clan and feeling hard done by.
Nothing in my post stated that TOMU was to blame or an aggressor, except in the sense that you're a PvP clan with an "Do not attack" list and allow you members to attack any others... I don't have a problem with this and stated that I know the game has a PvP element and you have to deal with that...
After suggesting a possible scenario, I then went on to introduce an idea that might reduce the aggravation caused by situations that escalate into forum slinging.
But if you'd prefer to take my comments and suggestions as insults, that's your perogative... Also I could be saying alot more about what happened between our clans that would be considered insulting, but I'm not... I'm making suggestions and defending my position...
Deathpunk,
That's a little bit honourable, a little bit voyeuristic... Hot! |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #22986 Posted: Jan 15, 2009, 10:15 pm |
| Er, sorry, Els, I wasn't talking about your posts. You've been plenty polite. |
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TzadkielPosts: 596 Location: Broukendale Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #22998 Posted: Jan 15, 2009, 11:29 pm |
Hey, I'm none too fond of some of the tactic here and any group of people will have less than honorable members on all sides. However - with the lack of a formal communication system (and the senate a flimsy area of "debate") the forum provides latitude to RP a conflict.
I'd love the newspaper to be able to report conflicts between clans as well as the atrocities committed on defenseless maji. I'm sure it did not escape notice of the citizens that a parade of golems have been beating down the walls and doors of Panacea. (did a bakery get hit with an errant catapult? perhaps a goat went missing...) but overall, we have very active conflicts that should have a space for some good name calling.
Instructing a clay golem to tack a sign to an enemy's empty storeroom of a stick figure making a rude gesture with a caption that reads "you smell like a blight roach" just doesn't have the same panache as throwing a flagon of ale across the street and cussing out a clan SM in public.
Ok, maybe panache is the wrong word ... ;) |
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| deathpunk Posts: 154
Location: Nournsland
Magus Age: 117 years old
| Message #23013 Posted: Jan 16, 2009, 2:06 am |
| Yamikuronue said:
Deathpunk: ...you need a forum post to tell you when there's a conflict so you can stay uninvolved? Um... That's... not making much sense.
i'm saying that if someone, prolly not me but someone, didn't want to interfere in a clan scuffle that they are not a part of then it would be nice to know that something was happening. this would be beneficial as some clans get especially whiny if you hit their members while they are in the middle of a war.
elsworth, it's more the voyeuristic bit than the honorable one, I do try to live up to my alignment. |
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