| Author | Thread: Negative XP |
| Aefgar Posts: 13
Location: Fellin
Magus Age: 117 years old
| Message #27445 Posted: Mar 16, 2009, 7:16 pm |
So it is obvious that not having a golem outside your workshop is a dumb move. But why get negative experience after an attack?
Situation
I am being camped by a couple of much stronger mages. My golem was destroyed, my clan guardian destroyed, and my workshop looted time and again. And all in a matter of hours.
So, I come back from work to find rubble everywhere... and have lost 160 hard earned XP!! I started rebuilding, got my golem together, but do not have enough money to armor it, my barricade back to level 10 or so... and I am attacked again! Wall is then back to 1 and golem damaged again.
I am not just back to square one, I am backsliding faster than I can recoup!
So, why isn't losing your golem, defenders, defenses AND resources enough? Why do we have to we have to lose XP on top of everything else? |
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AnriPosts: 229 Location: Darghelm Magus Age: 119 years old Clan: ADV Real Name: Lily
| Message #27452 Posted: Mar 16, 2009, 8:17 pm |
That is rough. I would recommend you use a simple flesh 1 golem. Put some armour on its chest but leave everything else unarmoured. With a little luck the next time you get hit the golem will only be disabled and not outright destroyed. By having a disabled golem outside you prevent the loss of xp and score from further attacks/loot runs.
As for your resources, donate most of them to your clan. Or start building some extra things like power supplies/eyes/armour to burn em. The main thing is not to have any secondaries and money lootable.
Finally, try sending said magi a message asking them "Politely" to stop.
Failing that, send me a message, with their names. I like smashing people too ;PLast Edited: Mar 16, 2009, 10:09 pm |
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NecariaPosts: 505 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 116 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #27459 Posted: Mar 16, 2009, 9:47 pm |
| The reason for the xp loss is because before it was added people were just not leaving golems out. So long as you didn't keep many resources lying around there was literally nothing to lose if you didn't have a defender out, so it was actually more expensive to leave out a golem that would have to be repaired or replaced. Of course now people just leave level 1 fleshes out for the same reason, but it's a little less ridiculous at least. |
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| Aefgar Posts: 13
Location: Fellin
Magus Age: 117 years old
| Message #27461 Posted: Mar 16, 2009, 10:24 pm |
I suppose that I can understand that reasoning to an extent, Necaria, but cannot help but feel that this is a bit extreme.
I play as a research grinder/non-combatant. I am only on during breaks at work, and can accept the PvP attacks and looting to an extent... however camping is extreme for someone that is never aggressive.
But that does not address the issue. I do not know how long it takes the average player to earn 160 experience points, but I am lucky to get 3 to 5 a day and only am active 4 or 5 days a week. So it takes me a very long time to gain that much. And to lose that much in a single day? Not because I did not have a golem outside either, but because that golem (as well as the clan guardian) was destroyed!
Your reason makes sense, I am just thinking that this imbalance may need to be visited.Last Edited: Mar 16, 2009, 10:27 pm |
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| Dilt Posts: 167
Location: Fellin
Magus Age: 112 years old
| Message #27463 Posted: Mar 16, 2009, 11:04 pm |
To say the truth, it's pretty easy to get 160xp, so long as you're employing the right methods (such as farming the giant). But, let's just run down some quick PvP strategy to prevent this from happening again.
A higher level golem is fresh meat for PvP hunters. We get XP (which means you will probably lose some) from that Iron 2 of yours. Your current guardian also has too many melee weapons equipped (more than one only helps if you lose an arm, it doesn't increase damage). Next, the power supply sucks. Your golem will run out of energy mighty fast, considering Iron 2s are extremely energy-costly and use up even Improved Steam Engines plus the fact that you just have a strip on the golem. I'm pointing this out because you need to look at your defense from an attacker's stance. Would I want to attack you? You look shiny, I would.
As for defense... Try putting out a flesh 1 golem with iron parts and give it just a ranged weapon. It should fare better than your usual golem. Additionally, if you give it a slightly weaker abdomen/pelvis, that one is usually destroyed first. That means you won't be completely undefended and lose XP and score on raids. If you're truly non-PvP, try to get together 15 premium tickets (via market or other methods) and purchase the No-PvP Premium benefit. That would stop those pesky attacks.
PvP in this game is highly tilted towards the attacker. The only way you can really fend off these attacks is to deter them. Get the Summon Rat/Rat Swarm spells, set out ranged defenders, and basically just be annoying to attack. They're less likely to attack if they see that they have to break through a few hours of rat swarm. Also, less likely if you have a simple fleshy defender out. Silly things like that. There are other options, but you aren't on often, so they aren't really good suggestions.
Hopefully this helps you out in some way. Sorry if I got ranty with that, because I like to ramble on about stupid things. |
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AnriPosts: 229 Location: Darghelm Magus Age: 119 years old Clan: ADV Real Name: Lily
| Message #27465 Posted: Mar 16, 2009, 11:14 pm |
| Aefgar, listen to Dilt there. That golem is way to attractive of a target. I'd smash it for the goodies sheesh. Get a flesh 1 out prefarebly. |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 117 years old
| Message #27479 Posted: Mar 17, 2009, 7:36 am |
| You know, and this is a bit off-topic, but I really don't understand why so many people claim, "I don't PVP so don't hit me!!!". I mean, it's a PVP game. There's an in-game mechanism provided to allow you to opt out of PVP - other than that, you're *going* to get hit. If you don't bother to ask the magi not to hit you so much, how are they supposed to know? And on a larger scale, if your clan doesn't talk to other clans and create no-hit treaties, there's no sense complaining when your members are hit. And yet some of my clanmates have gotten very, very angry letters in response to a casual drive-by hit. |
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TzadkielPosts: 596 Location: Broukendale Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #27497 Posted: Mar 17, 2009, 1:05 pm |
parallel to your tangent
Please give me an in game mechanism to form treaties and advertise them to the clan.
For instance, I cannot attack one of my own clan members (with some message about being a traitor) when actually, I WANT to to test out new toys without causing wanton destruction to a level 5 magi who belongs to no clan. Instead of a prohibition, that should be a "are you really really sure" warning message that I can dismiss.
If I, as an SM, can create a formal Non-Aggression treaty with another clan (we'll talk about internal clan votes and ratification another time) then I should get the SAME message if I attack a maji belonging to a clan with whom we have a treaty. This would prevent inter clan whacking based on simple ignorance.
Next, give me a way to properly censure those who go off the reservation. A new clan rank of Probation (under wizard knight)? Those members in Probation give up all clan items and do not have the privileges of taking new ones from the armory. (maybe too far, I know I know) Not only do we have a way to "punish" members temporarily without kicking them from the clan, we also have a mechanism to get new members to join without them raiding the pantry before donating bone one.Last Edited: Mar 17, 2009, 1:27 pm |
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PeggaPosts: 702 Location: Jaaron Magus Age: 122 years old Clan: ADV | Message #27506 Posted: Mar 17, 2009, 3:10 pm |
| I've thought of a solution to this, although it'll take Kep to do it. When a door guard is destroyed, it should leave A Pile of Debris outside. You wouldn't be able to do anything with it, but it would indicate that something was outside at one time and therefore should receive no penalty. Move a golem outside, and the pile is cleaned away. Maybe even make it so coming off work and going to the workshop actually cleans the doorstep. What do you think? |
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laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 114 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #27508 Posted: Mar 17, 2009, 3:26 pm |
| I like both those ideas! At OASIS we don't really pay attention to how much folks donate, but the peace treaty/warning idea is very cool, and the Pile Of Rubble makes good sense to me. |
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| Aefgar Posts: 13
Location: Fellin
Magus Age: 117 years old
| Message #27514 Posted: Mar 17, 2009, 4:21 pm |
Ditt has given me some great advice, and I appreciate it. In fact, I am going to try some of these strategies. Oh, and by the way, I had an Ouroboros as the power source on the original iron. I just did not have enough money to build another one.
As far as wielding dual weapons, before I built the strength up, I attached an iron weapon and a bronze as a test. I did not track the data prior to this as would have been the proper scientific method, but just judged by observances. It seemed to me that I hit a bit more often (iron showing up as well as the bronze) than I had with just the bronze, so I tried using 2 bronze and started taking out monsters more often. When I built up the strength a bit more, I traded the bronze for iron to increase the damage that much more. Maybe I was mistaken, but things just seemed to go my way more often with the dual wield so I kept the kit and upgraded the weapons/strength.
That being said, I want to reiterate that I did not start this thread as a grief about PvP. Yes, this is a PvP game. Attacks are to be expected and I could care less if I am hit and even looted now and again. No, I personally do not currently do it, but at some point in the future, I intend to. Right now, due to my inability to play more often, I choose not to.
As a PvP game (and to encourage this kind of play), the XP earnings are obviously going to be weighted toward the attacker. This really is as it should be. However, I started this thread to get other opinions on what I see as the extreme imbalance of lost XP for "not having a golem outside your workshop".
Rhetorical Question - How often are you, the reader, able to be logged on? If the answer is "not continuallyâ", do you check your account every hour (or several times a day) just to see if someone has broken in your door?
It seems to me that if having to rebuild the barricade on a daily basis and wait for resources to build up was not enough of a deterrent, then perhaps a grace period of a few hours (to give the player enough time to check on the status of things) before instituting an XP penalty may be something to suggest. Sort of like the Pile of Debris idea mentioned earlier. Certainly I cannot be the only person that has had this problem, just the first (that I have seen) to speak up about it.
From the responses in so far, it seems that no matter how long I have been playing, and despite my extensive research (both in the workshop and in perusing the forums), I still have quite a bit to learn about the best strategies for my playing style. This means that perhaps I should start gathering information on various strategies and post a Guide for Newbies (and Everybody).
Please, message me your observances, strategies (conventional or not) that have worked for you, hints, tips, and tricks, and I will start compilation for posting.
Last Edited: Mar 17, 2009, 4:23 pm |
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laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 114 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #27519 Posted: Mar 17, 2009, 5:16 pm |
| The Library [www.muelsfell.com/world/map_community.php] has lots of useful info and some good advice. |
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ShanPosts: 589 Location: Arzenbourg Magus Age: 127 years old Clan: ARROW | Message #27576 Posted: Mar 18, 2009, 3:18 am |
I also like Pegga's Pile of Debris idea.
As it's been said, the goal of the experience penalty is to encourage people to guard their workshops. But it also hurts people who have had their guards completely destroyed. So what is desired is to penalize those who willfully leave themselves defenseless, but make an exception for people who have not had the opportunity to replace a defender.
The idea seems simple enough.
When a magus puts a golem outside their workshop, the workshop becomes "guarded."
When a magus removes their golem from outside their workshop, and if they have no clan guard, the workshop becomes "unguarded."
As long as a magus is offline or at work, the guarded/unguarded status of their workshop does not change. If their golem(s) are destroyed, the Pile of Debris is left behind.
When a magus logs in/returns from work, if they have no defending golem, their workshop then becomes "unguarded." There would probably be a second message after the one that tells you how much you were paid to also tell you that your guard(s) were destroyed and you then cleared the remains away from the front of your workshop.
And if a magus is online and not at work when their golem(s) are destroyed, their workshop changes to "unguarded." |
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| Ziweicity Posts: 421
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 111 years old
| Message #27613 Posted: Mar 18, 2009, 2:23 pm |
| It seems that Pegga and Shan's suggestions are good and reasonable. |
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| Ziweicity Posts: 421
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 111 years old
| Message #27615 Posted: Mar 18, 2009, 2:38 pm |
Other similar suggestions:
1. A period of XP protection
Define and extend XP protection period after the defence golem is destroyed.
For example, when one player's golem is destroyed; he will not suffer xp lose within 24 hrs.
Attacker - gains 3 xp and resources
Defender - loses resources only
A. Equal XP protection time
Every players have 12-24 hrs of XP protection
B. Different XP protection time
Level 1-10: 24-48 hrs of XP protection
Level 11-20: 12-24 hrs of XP protection
Level 20+: 6-12 hrs of XP protection
For some junior players in the game, they are not easy for them to make a full golem within a day.
p.s. Assumption: daily online 1-2hrsLast Edited: Mar 18, 2009, 2:55 pm |
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