| Author | Thread: Combat Upgrades Coming | 1 | Page 2 | 3 |
laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 114 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #32101 Posted: Jun 15, 2009, 9:29 pm |
| I only see a speed listing when I click on an individual weapon, not in the library/armory description. Love the higher speeds though. |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #32102 Posted: Jun 15, 2009, 10:20 pm |
| My Ironwood long bow that had 40 some arrows loaded is now at 20 arrows, and my second Ironwood Long bow that was empty now also has 20 arrows loaded.
Sorry, I forgot to mention that. When I sent the speed updates on weapons into live it overwrote the current ammo on ranged weapons (d'oh). Since I didn't know who had how many, I just filled all ranged weapons with 20 shots. I should have mentioned that.
My main pvp golem has destroyed fully armored lv 5 Addy golems in 4 attacks. PvP combat is currently HEAVILY skewed in favor of the attacker. Defenders should be stronger.
Is this after today's update? In testing, heavier golems were definitely showing significant improvement in their abilities as defenders, but were not invulnerable.
I only see a speed listing when I click on an individual weapon, not in the library/armory description. Love the higher speeds though.
Apparently I overlooked that page update. Clan library/armoury descriptions should also be showing speed as of now.
Kep |
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| Mist Posts: 291
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 107 years old
| Message #32105 Posted: Jun 15, 2009, 10:43 pm |
Hi Kep,
I notice my Hangback golem keeps failing to fall back (not big deal)
but then it is to close to use the bow and loses its attack.
Would it be reasonable that if a golem fails to fall back, and is too close for ranged, that it should attempt to use its hand/melee attack?
That's the only PvE change I've noticed.
I like the display of the ECL of the details page. Can it be toggled on/off as an option?
He's a combat: Lvl2 Clay to Bone golem, Diamond Eyes, Air Gem, 78 strength, Ironwood Longbow, Forerunner Blade vs Giant. Notice the number of rounds lost to simply being "too close"
Killer withdraws 8 feet while a mountain giant begins to advance upon Killer. The defender's iron mace is out of range with about 78 feet between them, but the attacker readies its ironwood longbow.
Killer splinters nearby trees with shot after shot from its ironwood longbow, but also hits the abdomen (8 dmg), the chest (8 dmg) and the abdomen (8 dmg).
[Round 2] Killer fails to back up while a mountain giant continues to advance upon Killer. The defender's iron mace is out of range with about 48 feet between them.
Killer splinters nearby trees with shot after shot from its ironwood longbow, but also hits the chest (8 dmg) and the chest (8 dmg).
[Round 3] Killer withdraws 9 feet while a mountain giant continues to advance upon Killer. The defender's fists are out of range with about 27 feet between them.
Killer splinters nearby trees with shot after shot from its ironwood longbow, but also hits the chest (16 dmg -- CRITICAL HIT!), the right hand (8 dmg) and the abdomen (8 dmg).
[Round 4] Killer fails to back up while a mountain giant closes to melee with Killer. The attacker's ironwood longbow is too close to use effectively.
A mountain giant attacks with its fists and misses 4 times, but also hits the chest (9 dmg), the chest (9 dmg), the left arm (9 dmg), the right leg (9 dmg), the left arm (9 dmg), the chest (9 dmg) and the pelvis (9 dmg).
[Round 5] Killer fails to back up while a mountain giant holds its ground. The attacker's ironwood longbow is too close to use effectively.
A mountain giant attacks with its fists and misses 2 times, but also hits once on the chest (9 dmg).
[Round 6] Killer withdraws 17 feet while a mountain giant holds its ground.
Killer splinters nearby trees with shot after shot from its ironwood longbow, but also hits the chest (8 dmg), the head (8 dmg) and the abdomen (16 dmg -- CRITICAL HIT!).
A mountain giant attacks with its fists and misses once, failing to hit at all.
[Round 7] Killer withdraws 11 feet while a mountain giant closes to melee with Killer. The attacker's ironwood longbow is too close to use effectively.
A mountain giant attacks with its fists and hits once on the abdomen (9 dmg).
[Round 8] Killer withdraws 16 feet while a mountain giant holds its ground.
Killer misses with its ironwood longbow, sending a shower of splinters down from a nearby tree, but also hits the right leg (8 dmg), the chest (8 dmg), the left arm (8 dmg), the abdomen (8 dmg) and the chest (8 dmg).
[Round 9] Killer withdraws 9 feet while a mountain giant closes to melee with Killer. The attacker's ironwood longbow is too close to use effectively.
A mountain giant attacks with its fists and misses once, failing to hit at all.
[Round 10] Killer fails to back up while a mountain giant holds its ground. The attacker's ironwood longbow is too close to use effectively.
A mountain giant attacks with its fists and hits once on the chest (9 dmg).
Last Edited: Jun 15, 2009, 11:13 pm |
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| Mist Posts: 291
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 107 years old
| Message #32107 Posted: Jun 15, 2009, 11:26 pm |
| Panzerbjorn said:
40% evasion on the addy seems strong, but they are freaking expensive.
Being expensive is not a good balance though.
What type of things can be thrown against a Lvl5 Addy? Other high lvl attackers with good carrying cap, and heavy armour. Someone with a lvl5 addy is almost certain to have Spikes.
So an attacker can throw a good PvP golem maybe twice before hitting the "The authorities wil be alerted" thing.
It's no use using tricked out flesh/wood/bone against a level 5 addy & spikes they will be destroyed, because they don't have the hp or the armour carrying ability to absorb spikes + 20 damage + any weapong/strength boost on the addy. Thats a lot of Mo to burn just to splat against a big addy (sure attackers gets 10xp, defender gets 1xp but that's not much). Untricked flesh/wood/bone/stone are not going to be able to do anything. Straight Exotics will be little use, but high leave Exotics with elemental+strength h2h boosts might make a few scrathes but they're expensive too but the addys resistance & plate armour will pretty much negate any elemental bonuses.
I agree that an addy with no armour is a bit of a sitting duck. As is one without a decent wall.
With the corrections to reach, range & hangback it should even things up anyway.
And there simply isn't going to be a workable (combat) mechanic to stop a good size clan being able to pummel an individual. |
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NecariaPosts: 505 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 115 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #32112 Posted: Jun 16, 2009, 1:24 am |
| I'm not sure what your complaint is exactly. Flesh/wood/bone golems can't break an adamantine golem? That doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. It's also not really true, I've seen adamantine golems brought down by an enhanced high level bone. Some risk involved sure, but it's really not that easy to destroy a golem, particularly on defense. The authorities alerted thing, all you need is a second golem to attack with afterward since the limit is on the golem not the person. As for armor, I'm not sure what your point is there either, as the attacker can be similarly armored and keep the adamantine's damage down just as easily, and it can tailor weapons/spells to surpass the defender's armor while the defender just has to hope it works out. |
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KarnaPosts: 12 Location: Jinkara Magus Age: 117 years old Clan: ADV | Message #32117 Posted: Jun 16, 2009, 3:23 am |
@Mist
Bringin down an addy's damage isn't that hard, I have a bone 1 with bone 5 parts dressed in studs and leather with 15 impact resist. And it's not even maxxed out. If I ever get around to finishing him up, I could have him minning an addy easy while dealin 9 a hit, 12 with elephant strength boost. And as for the wall I got a bone 5 that can take care of that easy, again while minning the addy.
Essentially with the old system, I'd jus throw my bone 5 out first to blow the wall up and then finish up with the bone 1. I get 2 strikes with the bone 5 and 6 with the bone 1, addy 5's were xp farms and nothing more.
This will certainly make them stronger. Though really stone iron and addy need some base damage hikes to be useful. Their damage is a cinch to min, 2 iron studs per part takes care of stone and iron. And addy does take a bit more, but is still very doable.
Try it sometime, its amazing what one can do with the low level armour when you layer it. ;P |
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NecariaPosts: 505 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 115 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #32121 Posted: Jun 16, 2009, 5:21 am |
| With the new changes the mountain giant seems to run out of energy very quickly. |
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| Mist Posts: 291
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 107 years old
| Message #32128 Posted: Jun 16, 2009, 7:06 am |
| The authorities alerted thing, all you need is a second golem to attack with afterward since the limit is on the golem not the person.
I have 3 big bone golems. I can use them but they're not that effective.
Each one gets 1 run so theres no point enchanting them. And they're useless in PvE because of their high ECL. But their damage is so low (and so are the melee weapons I can get hold of) that against armoured opponents they basically do only strength damage. They do ok with a brass cannon, but then what doesn't.
Once I've hit a place with those three, I then have to fall back to the small fry to actually do any damage. Because the small fry get fried by Spikes/lack of armour capacity but at least they can do more than one attack run (So an elemental boost enhancement can be effective, especially if the opponent doesn't have plate armour).
The difficulty with the Addy5 defense, is that it will take a swarm of attackers with high level golems to scratch it. And 40% of their attacks will be wasted, and they only get one run with each high level golem.
Perhaps if we were talking 40% deflection on Addy5, only on addy locations. But it's not. Addy5 chest, will give deflection to Iron5 buildouts. The Iron5parts still hit as hard, carry as much, and are much easy to replace.
My problem with the concept is that it makes an Addy5 to much like an Ultimate Defence. And if there's ever an Ultimate Defence then the game as a whole suffers. |
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| Dilt Posts: 167
Location: Fellin
Magus Age: 112 years old
| Message #32129 Posted: Jun 16, 2009, 7:29 am |
Thus is why Iron/Stone boosts are being considered. If you have any suggeston to improve defense besides super-addy-deflection, please suggest it! I haven't thought of many great ideas, myself.
Also, Bone 5s get two PvP attacks. Take it from me, as I am master of the Hunter Killer.
And methinks Kep will be implementing an improved strength cap to help make the higher level golems quite funner to boost sometime tomorrow...Last Edited: Jun 16, 2009, 7:32 am |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #32153 Posted: Jun 16, 2009, 3:05 pm |
| And methinks Kep will be implementing an improved strength cap to help make the higher level golems quite funner to boost sometime tomorrow...
Indeed I have! I didn't manage to get it put into the main combat update, but it is live now: golem max strength due to experience increases is now equal to the golem's BASE strength plus 70.
Kep |
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| prom Posts: 7
Location: Villuno
Magus Age: 121 years old
| Message #32161 Posted: Jun 16, 2009, 4:20 pm |
Arkham said: And methinks Kep will be implementing an improved strength cap to help make the higher level golems quite funner to boost sometime tomorrow... Indeed I have! I didn't manage to get it put into the main combat update, but it is live now: golem max strength due to experience increases is now equal to the golem's BASE strength plus 70. Kep
No no no, thats not the way, we do not miss more limitations, why dont u make it the other way around and open countless posibilities like make ppl able to improve golems hitpoints, strength, speed, accuracy and make those numbers limitless. Let us buy the improvements we want for our golems with exp/resources/money and your work will simply consist in adding new quests/monsters on the table. Make the stats hard to get instead of setting limits, i mean what chance can a noobie have to reach out an old, promagus...give us the opportunity to at least hope we will catch up someday, let us build up the golem of our choice into a true beast instead of just hitting the cap in a few weeks and start thinking what will i do next..
Regards,
prom |
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| Dilt Posts: 167
Location: Fellin
Magus Age: 112 years old
| Message #32163 Posted: Jun 16, 2009, 4:48 pm |
| Uh. By definition, limitless would mean that newbies couldn't catch up with longer-playing magi. Also, this was extending a limit so it was less limited. I can't really understand what point you're trying to make, prom. O_o |
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laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 114 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #32164 Posted: Jun 16, 2009, 4:51 pm |
| Seems to me that making upgrades limitless would make it impossible for a newbie to catch up. As it stands, most anyone could have a golem to rival my best with a bit of work, but if I can upgrade forever, my tank will soon be completely unstoppable and nigh-uncatchable. I am all for more customization options, and don't mind being uber-powerful, but that seems like it would cause balance issues. |
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| prom Posts: 7
Location: Villuno
Magus Age: 121 years old
| Message #32165 Posted: Jun 16, 2009, 5:03 pm |
| Dilt said:
Uh. By definition, limitless would mean that newbies couldn't catch up with longer-playing magi. Also, this was extending a limit so it was less limited. I can't really understand what point you're trying to make, prom. O_o
My point is to open the game to more and more opportunities, let the player improve and customize his golem as he wishes to, gief a much larger pool of choices to a golem handler like him deciding if he wants to make an extra-strong golem, or maybe an extra-fast golem that can use hangback and ranged weps, or maybe just a tank with lots and lots of hitpoints...things that can be counted and the old players could not cover all the posibilities at the same time...lets say one have all the buildings to lvl 20, he already built the golem of his dreams and now he nukes the best monster on the map, whats left then?...only pvp i dont think it will be enough to keep the ppls interested...im sorry if you dont understand what i try to say, english is not my native language and i kinda have difficulties to find the appropriate words in order to describe my ideeas...
edit: laidan said:
Seems to me that making upgrades limitless would make it impossible for a newbie to catch up. As it stands, most anyone could have a golem to rival my best with a bit of work, but if I can upgrade forever, my tank will soon be completely unstoppable and nigh-uncatchable. I am all for more customization options, and don't mind being uber-powerful, but that seems like it would cause balance issues.
Tbh i do not believe in the uncatchable or unstoppable golems, every player goes afk now and then, every player is getting to a point where he will lose(maybe forever or maybe only for a while) interest in the game..those periods are usually the intervals when the "lil sharks" catch up the lost time...I find it perfectly normal that old experienced players to have advantages...
Regards,
promLast Edited: Jun 16, 2009, 5:12 pm |
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laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 114 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #32168 Posted: Jun 16, 2009, 5:38 pm |
| I guess if you had a lot of options for upgrading your golem, but limmited upgrade "slots" or "paths" for each golem, that would be a good way to open up more customization, without allowing for quite such overpowered golems. Or if a given upgrade downgraded a different stat-ie too much strength or hp lowers your speed, or suchlike. |
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| prom Posts: 7
Location: Villuno
Magus Age: 121 years old
| Message #32171 Posted: Jun 16, 2009, 6:04 pm |
Maybe my ideea its not a good one, but as i said it before, no limits, u can upgrade without limits, but make it really expensive in a balanced way betwen primary resources/secondary resources/money to force every player to lose some in order to get some..let ppl start raiding in pvp for the primary resouces but make it so that he must do some pve too in order to gather the also needed secondary resources...hard and expensive to make the upgrade move slowly into the right direction or use a progresive cost system for each upgrade..
Regards,
prom |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #32179 Posted: Jun 16, 2009, 7:11 pm |
| Mist said:
Hi Kep,
I notice my Hangback golem keeps failing to fall back (not big deal)
but then it is to close to use the bow and loses its attack.
Nobody seems to have replied to this, but from what I understand, this is working as directed.
(Say it with me everyone: Kep hates ranged clans ;P) |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #32182 Posted: Jun 16, 2009, 8:32 pm |
Yamikuronue said: Mist said:
Hi Kep,
I notice my Hangback golem keeps failing to fall back (not big deal)
but then it is to close to use the bow and loses its attack.
Nobody seems to have replied to this, but from what I understand, this is working as directed. (Say it with me everyone: Kep hates ranged clans ;P)
Nah, I'm working on an improvement. The first attempt was less than successful.
Kep |
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| Mist Posts: 291
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 107 years old
| Message #32190 Posted: Jun 17, 2009, 3:29 am |
| prom said:
Maybe my ideea its not a good one, but as i said it before, no limits, u can upgrade without limits, but make it really expensive in a balanced way betwen primary resources/secondary resources/money to force every player to lose some in order to get some..let ppl start raiding in pvp for the primary resouces but make it so that he must do some pve too in order to gather the also needed secondary resources...hard and expensive to make the upgrade move slowly into the right direction or use a progresive cost system for each upgrade..
Regards,
prom
prom I think your idea stands some merit. Even a few points in speed or hp tweaking would be nice. (and more painful to lose.)
The Mod that Arkham has done, that you originally objected to is actually a step in that direction.
The old system had an 80 strength cap on every golem. So for 70 * 75 Xp one could boost a Flesh golem to MAX strength. Or one could spend 10 * 75 Xp and boost an addy golem to MAX. That was the problem, both had the same max!
Now add to that the idea that Strength damage -always- gets through and doesn't get prevented by armour, that meant that Hi powered Flesh lvl 1 golems were hitting as hard as the most tweaked out lvl 5 Addy golem! Although the Flesh couldn't take as much damage!
The new Mod means that An addy will probably MAX out at around 130 (140?) strength. That's minimum 13 (or 14) damage. Rather than 9.Last Edited: Jun 17, 2009, 3:31 am |
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| Mist Posts: 291
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 107 years old
| Message #32191 Posted: Jun 17, 2009, 3:34 am |
| Dilt said:
Also, Bone 5s get two PvP attacks. Take it from me, as I am master of the Hunter Killer.
Ahh Master of Boney Hunter Killers, I assure you mine only get one PvP.
But you will note their slightly irregular boneyness, and rather impressive armour and looting abilities. Abilties that far exceed those mere mundane Bone Golems. |
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| prom Posts: 7
Location: Villuno
Magus Age: 121 years old
| Message #32194 Posted: Jun 17, 2009, 4:26 am |
Mist said: prom said:
Maybe my ideea its not a good one, but as i said it before, no limits, u can upgrade without limits, but make it really expensive in a balanced way betwen primary resources/secondary resources/money to force every player to lose some in order to get some..let ppl start raiding in pvp for the primary resouces but make it so that he must do some pve too in order to gather the also needed secondary resources...hard and expensive to make the upgrade move slowly into the right direction or use a progresive cost system for each upgrade..
Regards,
prom prom I think your idea stands some merit. Even a few points in speed or hp tweaking would be nice. (and more painful to lose.) The Mod that Arkham has done, that you originally objected to is actually a step in that direction. The old system had an 80 strength cap on every golem. So for 70 * 75 Xp one could boost a Flesh golem to MAX strength. Or one could spend 10 * 75 Xp and boost an addy golem to MAX. That was the problem, both had the same max! Now add to that the idea that Strength damage -always- gets through and doesn't get prevented by armour, that meant that Hi powered Flesh lvl 1 golems were hitting as hard as the most tweaked out lvl 5 Addy golem! Although the Flesh couldn't take as much damage! The new Mod means that An addy will probably MAX out at around 130 (140?) strength. That's minimum 13 (or 14) damage. Rather than 9.
Ohh i see, i never knew there was a cap, sorry for that... |
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| Kaelas Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 118 years old
Real Name: Barry
| Message #32198 Posted: Jun 17, 2009, 6:29 am |
| Sorry, I forgot to mention that. When I sent the speed updates on weapons into live it overwrote the current ammo on ranged weapons (d'oh). Since I didn't know who had how many, I just filled all ranged weapons with 20 shots. I should have mentioned that.
*Runs to the Armory to check on his weapons. Stops. Stares. Weeps.*
I was so close to fully loading every weapon in the Armory too... ah well. |
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| Mist Posts: 291
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 107 years old
| Message #32199 Posted: Jun 17, 2009, 6:37 am |
Kaelas said: Sorry, I forgot to mention that. When I sent the speed updates on weapons into live it overwrote the current ammo on ranged weapons (d'oh). Since I didn't know who had how many, I just filled all ranged weapons with 20 shots. I should have mentioned that. *Runs to the Armory to check on his weapons. Stops. Stares. Weeps.* I was so close to fully loading every weapon in the Armory too... ah well.
I just about fully -unloaded- ours.
Just ask MecTec :) |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #32271 Posted: Jun 19, 2009, 6:18 am |
| Arkham said:
The first attempt was less than successful.
Kep
Understatement of the year. I'm tempted to make an Alchemy/Defense clan just to move our highest-profile targets somewhere that can actually protect them. |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #32286 Posted: Jun 19, 2009, 3:15 pm |
Yamikuronue said: Arkham said:
The first attempt was less than successful.
Kep Understatement of the year.
Um. How would you know? You don't have access to the developmental instance where the changes took place.
Kep |
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