| Author | Thread: Magic: The Redheaded Step child | 1 | Page 2 |
laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #39532 Posted: Nov 20, 2009, 6:58 pm |
| masterslug said:
...our secondry - Mellee we have three spare slots and nothing worth spending them on. I'm sure other paths have the same problem.... (thank heavens for the forget button!!).
Amen to that! |
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| Sconibulus Posts: 664
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 123 years old
| Message #39535 Posted: Nov 20, 2009, 7:07 pm |
We've got a spell secondary, and find a lot of things useful, if you can't figure out how to work them then you've got problems.
Sticky Fingers is golden, it lets you armour up a golem and still get loot, Hasten I've been told is quite nice, but we're too full to take it. Second Wind might be my personal favorite spell of all time, it seems to be the only way you can compete power-wise if you're not an item clan. And my clanmates have good things to say about Force Field. If you can't figure out how to dominate any opposing foe you come into contact with with these spells and strength-boosted golems, well, I'm not sure what to tell you, but you might just fail at this game.
Honestly, the problem with permanent spells is that they'd frankly be overpowered. Imagine me sitting there with a 30 pound powersource an a 5 pound runestone standing pretty with a permanent 500+ energy. At library level 3.
The spell specialty is incredibly useful, and if the spells could be made permanent it would at it's current level be about as useful as items are, which is just plain wrong considering that item library levels are about double, meaning that resource costs are orders of magnitude greater. |
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| GordonIronsmith Posts: 434
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #39537 Posted: Nov 20, 2009, 7:28 pm |
Sconi get your point across without attacking people in your posts.
I like my spells and I'm not going to give them up. Would I like to see a low power permanent spell? Yes. Is it going to happen? No idea, but there's 10 levels left for Kep to play with so here's hoping for something neat.
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #39538 Posted: Nov 20, 2009, 7:39 pm |
| Please don't backseat mod. While he could probably have phrased it nicer, I'm not seeing Sconi's post as being particularly vicious so much as it is hyperbolic - but if we start jumping on each other's posts all the time things WILL get vicious. |
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| Kaelas Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 124 years old
Real Name: Barry
| Message #39565 Posted: Nov 21, 2009, 2:30 am |
Compromise on Runestones: Same idea as ranged weapons, they need to be refilled, but instead of ammo, you cast moti into them. So you install the runestone, then cast a spell, say Force Field (8 moti for 6 hours), on it. Instead of lasting 6 hours, it works for 6 combats instead. Or 60. Or whatever number seems balanced.
This way, you can power one up for a Shadow, then forget about it- but if and when it gets attacked, it depletes. Pretty much like our Clan's Primary. |
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| Vardos Posts: 146
Location: Mallow
Magus Age: 126 years old
| Message #39586 Posted: Nov 21, 2009, 10:20 am |
Alternate option for runestones: make one available runestone for every 2-3 levels of the library and then the runestone is only able to hold library/3 spell. Yes I can see how this would be a coding nightmare (used to work on a MUD) but it would allow for higher level spell clans to have something useful and permanent but not accessable until around the same time as everyone else. It also caps perma spells to level 6 which will keep the abuse down.
Vardos |
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| Semaj Posts: 273
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 120 years old
Real Name: Semaj Website: Click HereEmail: thegreatsemaj@hotmail.com | Message #39594 Posted: Nov 21, 2009, 5:16 pm |
I like a lot of the input and would comment myself with something meaningful but I have worked 60 hours this week already and have to work 12 more today so my brain is jelly right now.
Thanks for all the input though.
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NanashiPosts: 1115 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 126 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #39595 Posted: Nov 21, 2009, 5:59 pm |
Actually... I was thinking about the runestones being usable items. Meaning you get the option to make a runestone in your artificer for each golem spell that you learn (workshop spells could wait til clan headquarters are able to be attacked). Basically you create the runestone to hold the spell until you are ready to use it then the spell plays out normally.
Of course there would need to be a field added to apply the effect from the runestone to the golem. My idea was never to have the spell be a permanent item. Guess I should have been clearer... >_> |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #39601 Posted: Nov 21, 2009, 10:45 pm |
| @Nanashi: Yes, but *I* proposed (two posts before yours) that the runestone be permanent, accept only golem-target spells, and thus be droppable like any clan item; upon dropping the stone, the spell would immediately expire. That way an attacker can,with a lucky shot, take out the spell. That's where the permanent runestone idea came from. |
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laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #39603 Posted: Nov 22, 2009, 12:11 am |
| I do think that Nanashi's idea of a runestone being a one-shot device is interesting though, then monsters could drop them as loot and such, in addition to their regular (theoretical) use |
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| Vardos Posts: 146
Location: Mallow
Magus Age: 126 years old
| Message #39629 Posted: Nov 22, 2009, 2:20 pm |
I don't actually like the idea of rune dropping monsters. Mostly its because then the spell clans will feel as though they are getting nothing since everyone else will be able to farm the runes in question. Also I never envisoned runes as being cheap Around say 5k gems 3 k glass and then either gold or silver bars based on level.
Also I was going to throw out there since its a persistant effect it should cost the creator moti x 10 for initial creation. This is a balancing point in my opinion because if you can have an item that permanently gives you +7 to all elemental damage you will be killing almost everything like its a bad joke.
Vardos |
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| Semaj Posts: 273
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 120 years old
Real Name: Semaj Website: Click HereEmail: thegreatsemaj@hotmail.com | Message #39750 Posted: Nov 24, 2009, 6:39 am |
Ok, I final thought of a permanent spell fix that would work with any spell that can't be effected by other players actions.
For this example I will use myself. I generate 1 motivation every 10 mins, I have 146 motivation. And thew spell I will use is flying anvil which costs 25 motivation to cast and lasts 8 hours.
Solution #1:
So I produce a grand total of 144 motivation a day and it would take 75 motivation to keep flying anvil active all day. So 144 minus 75 is 69. So to produce only 69 motivation a day I would instead have a motivation production of 1 per 20.87 mins.
This solution would allow for an unlimited number of spells but possibly no game play due to extremely long motivation building times.
Solution #2:
This would be motivation reduction as long as the spell is active. But my brain can't figure out the math behind a reasonable equation for this. I know it isn't as simple as subtracting the motivation for one cast of the spell or the total cost of the spell for the day. Flat rates won't work for this one. It needs to be some equation that takes into account the spell cost, duration, and your personal production rate. I will update this post with an edit once I figure it out.
EDIT: The best thing I can get for a permanent motivation reduction is this.
total daily produced motivation = D
Cost to keep spell up for one day = S
Permanent reduction while spell is active = P
S * (S/T) = P
For my example using what I set out at the top of this post.
75 * (75 / 144) = P
75 * (.52) = P
39 = P
Leaving my motivation at 107 per the example.
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In conclusion I am more in favor of example 2 because it ensures that a spell you can't maintained throughout a day under normal circumstance can't be permacast. (go ahead run the number with elemental fury.) and rewards players for reaching higher levels. It puts a cap on the number of permacast spell one can have and still allows the player to play the game.
If you can think of a better formula than me please post it, really.
Let the debate continue.
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Second Edit: The motivation would be regained when the spell is dispelled, meaning its not gone forever, just when the spell is cast. It would also make a dispel spell worth while.Last Edited: Nov 24, 2009, 7:06 am |
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