| Author | Thread: Talmar's Suggestions |
| Talmar Posts: 184
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 109 years old
| Message #39238 Posted: Nov 16, 2009, 2:30 pm |
Hello all!
ok, I'll get right to it. I think one of the biggest downsides to the game is the sheer monotony of fighting critters. I have a couple suggestions here. The first one is make the creatures random! These would, of course, be put into Level Blocks. you could have 5 levels to fight in: Noob (level 1 and 2 creatures), 1 (1 to 4), 2 (3 to 6), 3 (5 to 8), 4 (7 to 10), and 5 (10+) You can put actual "Names" to the levels if you want, but I'm kinda tired and didnt' feel like being creative! This way there is a randomness to combat, and it does tend to keep things a little bit more interesting.
my second suggestion would be to make combat a little more interesting, by adding in some different types of attack strategy. currently we have 3: Normal, Hangback, and Agressive. I'd like to see that changed to Missle and Close Combat. you really only need 2, as if you want to shoot something, you will use Hangback, and if you want to melee something, you would use Assault. (I think Normal is the only choice for non-premium?) Anyways, there only needs to be 2: ranged and close combat. Now, I'd like to see some other combat options added, and these would be dependant on your actual Character Level. These can be small things like Aimed Shot, or Accurate Strike, where you can target a particular location, to other abilities that can add more damage, etc... maybe open one attack type every 5 levels or something to this scale. You might need to spend more time in combat, as you can choose which attack to use at each tick, but I think it would be more rewarding. Also, diffent attack types would require different amounts of energy to use, so you would now be able to use an energy strategy (go full tilt, spend lots of energy, and hope you kill it before you run out of steam, or fight defensively, conserve your energy, and strike when your opponent is exhausted)
just the changes to the combat system would open the game up in a major way! And it would also be huge if you were to also impliment an Arena so people can fight head to head!
ok, enough about the combat system. I like my ideas, but I'm not about to hold my breath to see if any of them will even be considered, let alone implimented! :D Lets talk about the Buildings
Buildings: well, I actually don't have anything to say about how these work. Seems to be a good system, and it works, sooo... if it ain't broke....
Next: Research! I'd like to say that I HATE limits! I understand where you might think we need these limits (so everyone can't do everything) but I think the people that play a long time should have bonus's. I would suggest making each progressive level of research take longer. LOTS longer! A Level 1 research might only take a couple of days, but when you want to research that level 5 Iron, it might take you a month to get it researched! This would make it so that only the really longterm players would have several Golems at level 5. And they can keep working on others as well. I would also like the ability to actually create my own weapons. Right now we can makes Eyes, Power, and Armor. why not weapons? Clans can make weapons, why not players?
so here is my suggestion to that point: you have 4 non-golem researches that you can go after (if you add weapons). You can specialize in one area. This would let you research on this category at a reduced cost and time, but would increase the other 3 types. So, in your specialty area, you it might take you a month to finish up that level 5 research, but it would take you 2 months to finish a level 5 in another area!
Also, you would be able to craft extra-fine items in your specialty Only. So if you specialized in Eyes, you might be able to make a set of eyes that gives a slightly higher bonus in accuracy, or maybe has less weight, or takes up 1 less slot. Lots of possibilities here! (but it will take lots of TIME! and Resources!) And again, this would open up the game, and give the players something that they can work towards. To Specialize in an area would be fun, even if it takes a really long time!
Now, Clans: I know there's some clan war plans in the pipeline, so no need to go into that here. But having clan wars would be fun, and would give everyone something else to do! (yes, raid that clan and steal their resources!)
well all, these are some of my ideas to improve the game and make it more fun for everyone! (except maybe the programmers!) Please comment on these ideas! do you like them? do they suck? let us hear your voices! |
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| Rednaxela Posts: 177
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 119 years old
| Message #39244 Posted: Nov 16, 2009, 5:59 pm |
| Talmar said:
ok, I'll get right to it. I think one of the biggest downsides to the game is the sheer monotony of fighting critters. I have a couple suggestions here. The first one is make the creatures random! These would, of course, be put into Level Blocks. you could have 5 levels to fight in: Noob (level 1 and 2 creatures), 1 (1 to 4), 2 (3 to 6), 3 (5 to 8), 4 (7 to 10), and 5 (10+) You can put actual "Names" to the levels if you want, but I'm kinda tired and didnt' feel like being creative! This way there is a randomness to combat, and it does tend to keep things a little bit more interesting.
I'm not sure I like randomness of that sort. It's not as if it would make the exp grind less tedious, it would just make it sightly riskier and thus require sightly more attention to repairs or a slightly more durable golem.
Talmar said:
my second suggestion would be to make combat a little more interesting, by adding in some different types of attack strategy. currently we have 3: Normal, Hangback, and Agressive. I'd like to see that changed to Missle and Close Combat. you really only need 2, as if you want to shoot something, you will use Hangback, and if you want to melee something, you would use Assault. (I think Normal is the only choice for non-premium?) Anyways, there only needs to be 2: ranged and close combat.
Well, current combat options seem somewhat buggy (see movement bug), but as someone who has used all three, they all have their uses. For example, a golem on "hangback" won't use melee attack at all so long as it has ammo and will back up quickly, "normal" will use ranged if it has ammo, melee if it's in close range, and will back up and move forward a bit but not as agressively as "hangback" or "agressive". Then "agressive" never ever uses ranged weapons but advances faster. Also note, all of those options are non-premium now. Anyway, I don't think having three options is redundant at all. The middle ground is certainly useful. So... no I don't like this idea at all.
Talmar said:
Now, I'd like to see some other combat options added, and these would be dependant on your actual Character Level. These can be small things like Aimed Shot, or Accurate Strike, where you can target a particular location, to other abilities that can add more damage, etc... maybe open one attack type every 5 levels or something to this scale. You might need to spend more time in combat, as you can choose which attack to use at each tick, but I think it would be more rewarding. Also, diffent attack types would require different amounts of energy to use, so you would now be able to use an energy strategy (go full tilt, spend lots of energy, and hope you kill it before you run out of steam, or fight defensively, conserve your energy, and strike when your opponent is exhausted)
This on the other hand, is an idea I REALLY like. Those sorts of things would be quite nice.
Talmar said:
I understand where you might think we need these limits (so everyone can't do everything) but I think the people that play a long time should have bonus's. I would suggest making each progressive level of research take longer. LOTS longer! A Level 1 research might only take a couple of days, but when you want to research that level 5 Iron, it might take you a month to get it researched! This would make it so that only the really longterm players would have several Golems at level 5.
I very strongly disagree with this point. I mean... many players already have level 5 golems, and I don't think it would make sense to make other people wait longer for them. Furthermore, I think the existing research times are just fine. I believe that the correct direction to go would be adding *new* levels, like level 6, 7, 8 golems, and make researching *those* take a very long time. That seems far saner and doesn't put a divide between pre-change and post-change people or anything silly like that. The current times for currently-existing golem research are just fine.
Talmar said:
I would also like the ability to actually create my own weapons. Right now we can makes Eyes, Power, and Armor. why not weapons? Clans can make weapons, why not players?
Well, there are tiger claws... not that those are any good ;)
I'm not sure this would make much sense anyway though. Personally, I DO agree that players should be able to make more on their worktable, after all, personal library levels are expensive and don't seem to do much good. Many levels of personal library do *absolutely nothing* which is irritating. I think though, that having more personal weapons would de-value what ranged and melee clans have too much though. Well, unless you gave the generic non-specialization clan weapons to people. But those... are completely useless weapons anyway, even more so than tiger claws. They impair combat rather than help it. My suggestion would be to allow players to make some items that are not armor/weapons/powersources/eyes actually. That, as well as adding *additional* research levels to the existing ones for personal items. |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #39247 Posted: Nov 16, 2009, 6:09 pm |
| If I had to wait a month for my addy5 research, I'd probably quit trying to research anything, ever. This game is an odd mix of highly fast-paced (scaled in minutes) and incredibly slow (forum posts spanning days) - generally 24 hours is a long time in game terms. And it does take progressively longer to research higher level things, by the way. It would take me 1:33:45 to get flesh 2 back but 5:43:45 to get armour 4 or 2:35:50 for power 3, and that's with a maxed artificer lab and the tools, so that's the shortest possible time for those options. |
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| Talmar Posts: 184
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 109 years old
| Message #39250 Posted: Nov 16, 2009, 7:17 pm |
yes, I know that some of these ideas are a tad radical. And if they actually put them into the game, I think it would need a total reset. I know that would really piss off everyone that's already been here a long time, and already has things maxed out, but it would actually be better for the game in general. (I don't expect all the vets to agree with me here)
now Yamikuonue, you've been playing for what? over a year as of now? so that would mean, even if it took a month to research a level 5 skill, you would STILL have completed it by now! ;)
the reason I hate WoW and will never play it is that I could have a max-level character in around 2 months... maybe 3 if I was a little slow. what to do after that? be bored. if you plan on playing a game for a long time (years?) then it's not a real problem to work for your goals. I think it's rather silly that someone that's only been playing for a month can be just as good as you are, after you've been playing for 2 years! Just my way of thinking. I understand if you don't agree with me, but I hope you can at least respect my logic on it.
Rednaxela, I'll address some of your points. the first one: I understand that people don't like random chance things, but it does make you pay attention! ;) And I think that the 10xp cap should be raised a bit. 10 xp should be for a critter that you have a hard time with, but you should be able to take most of the time. If you go up against something that should kill you every other time, then you should get the reward for beating it! That alone should make things more interesting!
the second point, with the stances, well, I guess if I had both ranged and melee weapons on my golem, Normal would come into play...
third point: glad you liked this one! :D it's definatly one thing I would love to see, above all else! (not counting the bug fixes)
point 4: I think I adressed that above. if you could put in new levels instead, that would also work.
your last point: not sure if you were agreeing with me here or not! I think the Clans that specialize in weapons would still have better stuff than you can make yourself, but I think that we should still have some option to create our own weapons. this skill should NOT replace the clan items! you should still be able to make weapons, just not as good as a specialized clan.
and I would love to hear some ideas of yours concerning "items that are not armor/weapons/powersources/eyes" Not sure exactly what those can be. maybe make food? items to save your moti? lots of possibilities there.
so, keep picking away at my ideas! ;) the more people that are involved, the better that they will become! |
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| Rednaxela Posts: 177
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 119 years old
| Message #39253 Posted: Nov 16, 2009, 8:07 pm |
| Talmar said:
the first one: I understand that people don't like random chance things, but it does make you pay attention! ;) And I think that the 10xp cap should be raised a bit. 10 xp should be for a critter that you have a hard time with, but you should be able to take most of the time. If you go up against something that should kill you every other time, then you should get the reward for beating it! That alone should make things more interesting!
I would agree, the cap of 10xp is perhaps too limiting. I think what is possible for a low level golem to kill could be enough of a cap on it's own. I still don't like the idea of increased randomness for the sake of requiring more attention though. The type of attention that it forces is not the fun kind of attention, thus I don't see it as being a useful way to break to monotony.
Talmar said:
your last point: not sure if you were agreeing with me here or not! I think the Clans that specialize in weapons would still have better stuff than you can make yourself, but I think that we should still have some option to create our own weapons. this skill should NOT replace the clan items! you should still be able to make weapons, just not as good as a specialized clan.
My point is that currently, the boundry between "completely useless" and "clan weapon" is too thin. Yes, there are good clan weapons, but the worst clan weapons are so bad they might as well be useless. In order for personal weapons to make sense, the gap between "no weapon" and "clan weapon" would need to be widened, in order to give personal weapons a sensible niche.
Talmar said:
and I would love to hear some ideas of yours concerning "items that are not armor/weapons/powersources/eyes" Not sure exactly what those can be. maybe make food? items to save your moti? lots of possibilities there.
Indeed lots of possibilities. Making food at the cost of both moti and a little resources might be neat. Also, see the sorts of items that 'item' clans have for some more examples of the general lines I'm thinking. Don't want to make item clans de-valued of course, but I'm sure there are many kinds of useful trinkets that a magus could make.
and I'm afraid I do still agree with Yami about the research time. More time for the existing things doesn't seem to make much sense to me even if there was a reset of the game. The wait between being able to make new things is long enough as it is without waiting longer between researches. Even higher research levels that continue taking longer and longer to do seems like the more appropriate way to go to me, whether there would be a reset as you advocate or not. |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #39259 Posted: Nov 16, 2009, 9:58 pm |
We change researches around to meet our needs, rather frequently. Doing so takes a good deal of resources and about a week in erasing and re-researching.
I want the systems we were promised - families, clan jobs, other things to DO other than grind to no end. Making the grind take two years instead of two months doesn't change the fact that it's a GRIND. Look at the achievements - it takes forEVER to get 1000 armour pieces. It's not fun. It's painful and tedious. |
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laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 113 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #39261 Posted: Nov 16, 2009, 10:20 pm |
| And as far as things taking longer, look at the high levels of clan library. It's looking likely to take us about 4 more months (if not more) to get enough donations for library level 14, and then probably like 10 months for library 15. And that's not including necessary storage and great hall upgrades too. Talk about discouraging... The problem you mentioned, where you get to "level 70", and then have nothing to do is certainly a problem, but I think it's worse to be stuck at level 60 for a year, hoping level 61 gives you something that made it worth the grind to get there. Last Edited: Nov 16, 2009, 10:23 pm |
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| Talmar Posts: 184
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 109 years old
| Message #39397 Posted: Nov 19, 2009, 6:56 am |
ok, so it seems that the Grind is the biggest problem. maybe we can come up with something to make the Grind a bit less Grind-y, and more fun. Maybe Quests? Not the cheezy quest things that we need to get the wall spikes and all that, but some cool, decent quests!
I'm thinking of something like a chain of events that need to be accomplished, with the same Golem! (no healing in-between? would make things a bit more difficult. Also, no going back to your workshop to refit!) They would be Level specific, so you can't enter the low level quest with some blown-out Gem, or totally decked out Addy. (or, you could enter them, and defeat them, but wouldn't get anything) They would be difficult, where there is a chance that you can't complete it. At the end, you would get some special item (randomly generated? Specific type?) for your troubles. Maybe fight 4 different critters, in different terrain? Make both random, so you can go thru the quest again! (maybe limit the prize to once a week? once a month?)
that's just one example of what we can do to make the game a bit more interesting. I also think that an Arena is REALLY necessary! I know others have mentioned it before, but it would add a HUGE extra element to the game! Especially if my advanced combat system gets into the game! :D I'd also like to see team play! getting together with a friend to double-team things! 2 vs 2 battles in the arena!
well, all I can think of in my half-asleep state here... |
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HarryhausenPosts: 562 Location: Jaaron Magus Age: 110 years old Clan: ARROW | Message #39493 Posted: Nov 20, 2009, 5:02 am |
how about something to make you want to explore, plus give you the option to customize. How about a blacksmith that will put together 4 materials and create a weapon or armor from them? once a day at a random time, in a random spot, a random clump of material is placed on the map that is lootable like combat leftovers.
lead
priority: 17
weapon : Maul(hand)(pounds)
armor : Belt(pelvis)
damage : 3,0,0,0,0,0
defend : 1,1,0,0,0,2
weight : 7
speed : 2
mercury
priority: 40
weapon : Liquid Glove(hand)(wraps, then crushes)
armor : Girdle(abdomen)
damage : 0,0,0,0,0,0-special 3(like acid and such)
defend : 2,0,0,0,2,0
weight : 10
speed : 3
quartz
priority: 7
weapon : Spear(hand)(pierces)
armor : Visor(head)
damage : 0,1,1,0,0,0
defend : 0,3,0,0,0,0
weight : 3
speed : 6
titanium
priority: 35
weapon : Rhino Horn(head)(rams and pierces)
armor : Shoulder Plates(arm)
damage : 1,0,3,0,0,0
defend : 3,3,3,2,2,2
weight : 5
speed : 3
I just made up 4, but there could be 50 easily
so combined, as a weapon, it'd be a Spear with 4,1,4,0,0,0+special3, a weight of 25, and a speed of 14.
The combinations would be hugely varied, and add a ton of complexity to the game.
EDIT: Oh and have the reach determined by the weapon, and as I'm not an expert in reach, I'd leave that up to someone else.Last Edited: Nov 20, 2009, 5:04 am |
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