| Author | Thread: A meeting in the dark | 1 | Page 2 |
XorphitusPosts: 182 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 122 years old Clan: HAVOC | Message #42894 Posted: Mar 19, 2010, 12:10 pm |
Xorphitus nods and adds another question:
"Interesting. You have fought a lot of battles I guess, and since hits which monsters or other Golems did against you were at least uncomfortable and displeasing and damaged your health and sapped your life force, I wonder have you ever experienced fear or anger being in such battles. Since, well, you as an example of a self-aware Golem question the way Golems are used usally. We Magi construct Golems, give them life force and send them into dangerous battles and on hazardous missions... knowing they do not feel pain, do not have feelings, have a mind of their own, are aware of what they are how they are used to do as their Magus master wishes. Now you as self aware Golem, being able to have feelings, intellect, being an independent mind, being able to comprehend what is going on around you, etc.... how do you think about the ordinary Golems? Or in other words, are the other Golems potentially being able to develop self-awareness as well, and are just... umm ... sleeping or not awakened yet?
Since this is the controversial issue I have at least. I construct and use my Golems as sort of tool, knowing that they are not alive and so are no enslaved creatures but just, well, machines.
Golems like you question the whole way I as a Magus look upon Golems. So well, I am most interested in how you came to life, if I may put it this way. I guess Semaj may explain something as well there, since he is the one who brought you to life, if I understand it correctly?" |
|
| Semaj Posts: 273
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 114 years old
Real Name: Semaj Website: Click HereEmail: thegreatsemaj@hotmail.com | Message #42915 Posted: Mar 20, 2010, 7:41 am |
Semaj still sat silent as Petros continued the conversation.
"First off yes, I do experience emotions. I can experience all of them. Funny you only ask about two of them that happen to be different sides of the same coin.
As far as other golems are concerned, I know they are tools. I myself have commanded some of Father's other golems in his absence. I guess machines are a good way of looking at it. That being said I would be considered either a sentient android or a cyborg.
Finally how I came to life is complicated." As Petros begins talking on this final subject Semaj sits forward in his chair and begins to pay more attention to the conversation.
"Golems as they are, as you use them from what has been explained to me are quite unlikely to develop self awareness. This is given the average 'life' span of a golem. Most of them simply are not around long enough to begin to learn things they are not programed with. Maybe if a golem survived long enough it could develop an awareness but as it stands right now I am unaware of any other golems that are sentient like myself, so that is just theory. It's rather sad to me to not have anyone like myself to really relate to tell the truth." Petros pause for a moment and sighs. His loneliness is clear at this point.
"But that doesn't answer your question. I was brought to life much unlike any golem has been or ever will be. Father as you see before you now is not the same as when he made me. The amount of knowledge he used to make me would drive anyone else quickly into insanity and for his own sake has been locked away in the corners of his mind. My power source is made with a magic that cannot be dispelled and will never fade. There are nanobot that live in me that will repair me over time. I can control earth at will to use as attack, defense and recovery. And finally I have a soul. I was told all of this in a message father left me before he locked away his memories. He played god to make me, pulled energies from the life stream itself to make the true essence of what I am." Petros looks over at Semaj.
Semaj adds to what Petros had said. "You see I don't have access to everything I know. That was actually more than I remember of creating Petros. With that in the light I almost feel as if I committed a crime... I can only add that the only information programed into Petros as a starting point where the instincts of a human child. I had to teach him everything else in real time. This is how I prevented him from going crazy. I did however use magics I know to enter his dreams as to speed up the process and teach him in his sleep as well." |
|
| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #42993 Posted: Mar 24, 2010, 6:00 pm |
((Friendly OOC reminder: Please do remember that this isn't a science fiction setting. Vague explanations of things should probably reference magic rather than suddenly advancing the technology of the world several thousand years.
Also, a continuity note: The existence of sentient golems was revealed in the thread War Drums to the magus community at large; therefore, Petros' lack of sentient golems to talk to is due to his being uninformed rather than an actual lack.))Last Edited: Mar 24, 2010, 6:04 pm |
|
| Semaj Posts: 273
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 114 years old
Real Name: Semaj Website: Click HereEmail: thegreatsemaj@hotmail.com | Message #42995 Posted: Mar 24, 2010, 6:48 pm |
((OOC: The technology comes from my characters experiences, thus no one else is using it, I am not spreading knowledge of it and I wouldn't be surprised if the other character don't understand it. It's the power of the knowledge gained form the curse of something close to immortality and travailing though lots of other parallel universes. It is in my back story that I am a dimensional traveler This is also why Semaj himself doesn't remember the creation process well. He locks away the excess memories he has to prevent insanity. This provides a reason for him to have to learn things from scratch, a stable personality and a plot device that allows me to use my same character over many different platforms.
And yes, ooc I know there are other sentient golems and Petros has come to knowledge of them in the Old Forged Problems thread but that takes place two weeks after this thread.
Truthfully I just think the combination of technology with magic is fun. Most of the time when magic is around technology has yet to be invented and when technology is around magic is lost.)) |
|
XorphitusPosts: 182 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 122 years old Clan: HAVOC | Message #43000 Posted: Mar 24, 2010, 7:52 pm |
((OOC: This might sound a bit bitchy, but technology IS magic, just depends on how you explain shared AND mutually confirmed reality, or better, the belief of people what reality is. I am a bit Ars Magica contiminated (and therefore like the way reality, magic, Gods, etc. are explained by Terry Pratchett's Discworld - which shares the Ars Magica approach in many points) and therefore we first could discuss HOW we define magic and reality. My guess there will be many views on this, and the game does not pre-define the way magic works in Muelsfell, just that some magic effects can be done and the Magus knows the ways of creating Golems, including material and basic function prerequisites. But from there on the players can develop their own beliefs how magic works, just like their Magus will have own explanations on how the magic works and the farbic of reality altogether is structured.
I agree however we should respect the ways others play their roleplaying and not spoil it or bash them for their way of playing.
But as for self-aware golems, Xorphitus has his doubts based on his knowledge and belief of the fabric of reality and if life force can be created within a Golem, other than trapping and binding some entity within said Golem. The entity being first of all shocked about being bound to the Golem but developing a way of coping with their new existance, but most likely having forgotten what they have been before and therefore learning and developing from scratch.
But hey, that's just my way of playing Xorphitus, and he may be a Magus renegade or heretic. But since there is no Word of God on this (at least non I know of), there is room for dissence on this topic.
As for magic and technology, you could interpret technology as fixed belief on how reality works and what is possible, and magic being wild, flexible, unexpected and non-predictable for most. So 2 ends of a scale of reality explanation for the witness with technology being rather static and magic dynamic, one expectable due to predictable routines and processes, the other wondrous and irritating.
Just had to make this clear and hope someone else apart from me and Semaj push the thread forward :-) ))Last Edited: Mar 24, 2010, 7:59 pm |
|
XorphitusPosts: 182 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 122 years old Clan: HAVOC | Message #43001 Posted: Mar 24, 2010, 8:26 pm |
Pondering about the words by both Petros and Semaj, Xorphitus murmurs something like "this would explain some things like the clockwork elephants and bronze dwarfs, ancient and erratic creatures" and nodding.
"So whatever you did back then and have chosen to forget Semaj, perhaps it would be best to keep forgotten perhaps? Since you feel uneasy and decided to seal it... deep within your mind? Or perhaps you first wanted to see how Petros grows up, so to speak. Since you were unsure about the results, and you then could unseal the buried memories and knowledge together with Petros, some sort of security routine perhaps? So that, if something did go wrong, this dangerous knowledge would be unreachable and mean no harm. Trial and error, just in a very sophisticated and wise way? I thank you for your willingness to explain this to us, I have to think about that and I am relieved somehow to be able now to see a clear and distinct difference between you, Petros, and the Golems I created."
A relieved face expression and a smile are seen as he nods and bows slightly towards both Petros and Semaj.
"Perhaps someone else has some more questions, my first curiosity has been quenched... for now. I thank you, from the deep of my heart and I have to think for a short while about what you said." |
|
| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #43004 Posted: Mar 24, 2010, 9:12 pm |
((Dimensional travel is all well and good but you can't expect anyone in-character to know what you mean when you throw around terms like nanobots.
As far as the tech = magic argument, there's limited technology IN THIS GAME SETTING, as most of it's been replaced explicitly by magic. Other fantasy settings include high technology - this one does not. The most advanced tech we've seen in the game is based around golemancy. Please keep it that way. Golems ARE high tech for this setting.h
Furthermore, you could define magic as being wild and unpredictable, but then you're not defining magic as used in Muelsfell. Here, casting a certain spell always gives you the desired result, time and time again - much like repeating a science experiment.))Last Edited: Mar 25, 2010, 1:28 am |
|
ShanPosts: 589 Location: Arzenbourg Magus Age: 127 years old Clan: ARROW | Message #43018 Posted: Mar 25, 2010, 5:34 am |
| Yamikuronue said:
Here, casting a certain spell always gives you the desired result, time and time again - much like repeating a science experiment.))
((OOC: I'd say that was what he meant by magic being technology. A large part of science is understanding the physical laws of the universe, and many magic systems are presented as, basically, understanding the physical laws of a universe where it's physically possible to evoke a fireball out of thin air. Hence, "science and technology," just not as we understand it.
I have wondered how the community understands the Muelsfell magic system and golemancy. I think I'll try starting another thread to expand this discussion, if that's okay.)) |
|
| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #43021 Posted: Mar 25, 2010, 6:06 am |
| ((But that doesn't equate to "Nanobots".))hh |
|
| |
| First | Page 2 |
|
