| Author | Thread: When is a golem completely destroyed usally?!? |
XorphitusPosts: 182 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 122 years old Clan: HAVOC | Message #41892 Posted: Feb 4, 2010, 1:00 pm |
Hi, I boggle about the death of my second Homunculus since it was destroyed by direct chest damage but still had plenty frame hps left.
It got 1 critical and 2 normal blows against the chest and died. Altogether 62 points of damage.
This boggles me since I had too many to count PvP combats which have been stopped once the opponent or my golem got too many blows to the chest and were shut down. They had 1 hps on the chest left and the additional damage went against the frame hps. Even if said badly damaged golem was attacked against and again got hits against the chest it did NOT die.
So my guess was you needed to exceed the frame hps by either critical hit damage or exceeding body part damage PLUS getting the chest health on 1 or less.
I do not get those 2 observations together and I want to understand if PvP is just "softer" and less lethal, and monsters are more deadly. But again, I remember fights being stopped when the chest collapsed without the golem being destroyed.
Thanks for all insights in advance! |
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MustafaDeValdemarPosts: 235 Location: Rimesvin Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: ARROW Email: valdemar23@yahoo.com
| Message #41897 Posted: Feb 4, 2010, 3:39 pm |
From what I've been able to tell, if an area's HP is exceeded, the excess goes to directly to core HP. Also, critical hits deal 1/2 damage to core HP.
Of course, that doesn't explain why your golem was destroyed with only 62 pts of damage.
There's also a bug floating around that increases the core HP above the maximum level - which is quite irritating if you're trying to get the Anti-Golem achievement.
:), MdVLast Edited: Feb 4, 2010, 4:13 pm |
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| Kaelas Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 118 years old
Real Name: Barry
| Message #41923 Posted: Feb 5, 2010, 8:16 am |
| There's also a 'shut-down' penalty to the Core HP- it seems to be a slightly variable percentage of the max core HP but I haven't really done any work to determine any specifics. |
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XorphitusPosts: 182 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 122 years old Clan: HAVOC | Message #41924 Posted: Feb 5, 2010, 9:04 am |
Well, just made another interesting observation. A lvl 1 flesh golem got hit on the chest 4 times, no critical. 3 times 14 pts of damage and the last blow 16 pts, making it shut down. It only shut down and was not destroyed and its frame hps were reduced to 17 hps. So the frame got 33 pts of damage, more than double the amount of the last blow. Since the first 3 blows reduced the chest hps to 8 and the last blow exceed it by 8, perhaps a 4 times the exceeding damage... or random damage?
I cannot get this together, it smells broken. |
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SoujiPosts: 1376 Location: Darghelm Magus Age: 116 years old Clan: ARROW | Message #41932 Posted: Feb 5, 2010, 4:01 pm |
I know that if a Level 1 Flesh bag gets Core and Chest HP at less then 10 then it shuts down and you cant move it back outside if you moved it inside for repairs...However if there is at least 10 on each then happy hunting!
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NanashiPosts: 1115 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #41994 Posted: Feb 9, 2010, 3:45 am |
I believe main hp takes damages in the way of
(1) half the amount of any critical hit
(2) any excess damage from a part that is destroyed
(3) half the hp of the chest when it is destroyed (not quite verified but that is about what i noticed)
I am not completely sure about the last since I seriously try to avoid completely destroying golems. (Cae not withstanding >> )
Really sad to blast fully boosted golems to kingdom come. =( |
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| Kaelas Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 118 years old
Real Name: Barry
| Message #41996 Posted: Feb 9, 2010, 6:36 am |
| I don't think it's always half upon shut down. I've seen everything from less than 25% to more than 50%. It's definitely a variable number, as I've had the same golem experience different shut down penalties. |
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XorphitusPosts: 182 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 122 years old Clan: HAVOC | Message #41997 Posted: Feb 9, 2010, 10:37 am |
| Though point (3) is a correct observation. Though it has to be a variable damage range, since else you would always kill a enemy golem guarding a workshop if you manage to shut down its chest twice. And this is not the case, only in rare cases. So perhaps really a variable number from 25-50 %. It was 50% in the combat case I mentioned earlier, but perhaps 50% of the left frame hps instead? |
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KennethPosts: 133 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 104 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #42014 Posted: Feb 10, 2010, 1:05 am |
yeah I had my flesh 1 shut down 3 times and it still (somehow) had 31 hp left.
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XorphitusPosts: 182 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 122 years old Clan: HAVOC | Message #42421 Posted: Feb 25, 2010, 9:25 am |
Ok, this result screws the concept completely.
My flesh lvl 1 golem gets one critical hit with a flanged zweihander on the head for 64 points of damage. Head flies off and golem shuts down but is not destroyed.
It ends up with 1 of 50 frame hps instead.
So... how does this explain? The head had 15 hps, the damage exceeds this by 49, but there should have been additional damage by the critical hit of 32 points of damage as well.
Odd. |
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KennethPosts: 133 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 104 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #42426 Posted: Feb 25, 2010, 1:50 pm |
| methinks the crit. only carries over if it hits the chest. |
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| GordonIronsmith Posts: 434
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 114 years old
| Message #42437 Posted: Feb 25, 2010, 4:38 pm |
| Nope crit carries over regardless of where it hits. I've been hit a crit all over the body besides the chest, and I still take HP damage. |
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NecariaPosts: 505 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 115 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #42444 Posted: Feb 25, 2010, 9:28 pm |
| Just losing all body hp won't destroy a golem. Both the body hp and the chest hp have to be reduced to 0. If only 1 is then it keeps 1 point and the golem just shuts down like you saw. However being shut down by body hp doesn't do any extra damage to the chest so it can be pretty tough to destroy a golem that that happens to since any crit or limb destruction will shut it down again ending the fight with potentially no chest damage done still. |
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| Mist Posts: 291
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 107 years old
| Message #42745 Posted: Mar 12, 2010, 6:21 am |
The 777 damage one of the dragons did to my boosted lvl 2 Gem seemed to destroy it rather effectively (also destroying 2 scales, diamond eyes and an ouroboros in the process). verrry close it was too.
I think it's when you lose a couple of limbs/head that the core HP drops during the battle. Then when the criticals hit they take core much lower so a higher death rate.
Whereas if your chest gets knocked to 1 or 0 and you still have enough core HP not be destroyed immediately, then your golem is out-of-action. But I'm not sure if that's straight away in the round (I think so) ... or measured at the end of round 10.
That's another reason the 1 armed bandits tend to survive a little longer I think. They don't lose the limbs as quick so don't get the extra critical damage. They tend to wear more chest hits, but as long as it doesn't outright kill them they're KO'd and thus 'safe'.
I usually put out a low level "pvp" target golem if anyone's keen to test (read destroy) it. Just please be careful if it's not an obvious PVP target (ie labelled "pvp"). |
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| Talmar Posts: 184
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 110 years old
| Message #42781 Posted: Mar 14, 2010, 9:51 pm |
I do think the golem killing is really bugged. Especially in PvP. I've been on both sides of this... someone attacked me, and did incredible damage to my little L1 fleshy guarding my door. It shut down. He attacked again, and did massive chest damage again, and my golem only shut down (did lots of damage elsewhere, too). he attacked a 3rd time, and did more massive damage! Still, my golem only shut down. Chest at 1, all kinds of limbs missing, but my golem wasn't destroyed. I think the total damage was well over 200 points (just to the chest!) and it still survived.
Now, I was on the other side. Went in, did all kinds of damage, and the golem shut down. Attacked again, tore off limbs, did lots of chest damage, and the golem shut down. Attacked again, did all kinds of damage, tore off more limbs, and the golem shut down. attacked a 4th time!! and did more massive damage, and finally tore off the pelvis and both legs, and the golem shut down! I can't remember how much chest damage I did, but I'm pretty sure it was over 200 points (he had a level 2 gem golem)
So, I'm thinking that the PvP golem killing is kind of broken.
just my observations... but I can't see that it's supposed to work this way. |
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SkitzYiePosts: 383 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 112 years old Clan: ARROW | Message #42785 Posted: Mar 15, 2010, 2:03 am |
[Round 1] A halo of brilliant sparkling purple surrounds AllFleshMustBeEaten, enhancing its strength. AllFleshMustBeEaten holds its ground while his Flesh Golem begins to advance upon AllFleshMustBeEaten. The defender's fist is out of range with about 67 feet between them, but the attacker readies its mortar cannon.
AllFleshMustBeEaten uses its mortar cannon and hits once on the chest (104 dmg -- CRITICAL HIT!). The wall was hit 1 time(126 dmg) and has fallen by 1 level. Like a discarded leather puppet, the chest collapses in on itself.
His Flesh Golem is completely destroyed, its parts broken beyond repair or obliterated entirely.
Golem destruction does seem all over the place. In the above fight against a lvl 1 flesh it was completely destroyed in one crit shot for 103 damage.
Then in another fight using the same set up against another lvl 1 flesh it went 4 rounds, 2 hits to the chest. 1 was for 42dmg and the next was a crit for 101dmg. There were no other crit hits to any other part. despite doing more over all damage to the chest and only 3 less in the crit to the chest in this fight the golem only shutdown. |
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| Noreen Posts: 102
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 108 years old
| Message #42787 Posted: Mar 15, 2010, 4:32 am |
| Sounds to me like complete distruction is an unknown percentage chance once certain conditions are met. |
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SkitzYiePosts: 383 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 112 years old Clan: ARROW | Message #42791 Posted: Mar 15, 2010, 1:05 pm |
Mist had mentioned that it may be due to the core HP problem, with golems ending a fight with more core HP than they started, at times eve more than should be possible.
Mustafa De Valdemar also has reported the core HP bug. He has a lvl 5 clay golem with over 400 core HP due to this bug (for reference, lvl 5 clay should have 225 HP)
So apparent golem destruction bug due to this core HP functionality bug, % chance, an unknown formula variable? |
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NanashiPosts: 1115 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #42795 Posted: Mar 15, 2010, 7:42 pm |
I think that there is also a difference in chance of a golem getting destroyed by a monster versus getting destroyed in pvp.
Cause i have sent golems against monsters and through really bad luck or stupidity *cough* usually bad luck... >> My golem would get shut down and destroyed.
To my knowledge the main hp bug occurs when a chest is hit with precisely enough damage to shut it down. Needs to be fixed but difficult to abuse since there is some variance in damage, even without crit, and a location can be hit even after it has taken damage sufficient to be destroyed. As far as I know, destruction of a part occurs at the end of each round after damage has been tallied. |
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