| Author | Thread: Out-of-character Meta-discussion | 1 | Page 2 | 3 |
| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #44829 Posted: Jun 22, 2010, 7:54 am |
| Does anyone else plan on having their golems have magical powers? Because as far as I'm concerned, normal golems don't cast spells, we cast spells upon them. In order to be a spellcaster, you have to be basically human; the Sparked golems are worried that they won't be able to create more golems, so if anything happened to the humans, golemancy would die out. Repairing the physical body is one thing, enchanting animating spirits and so on is another - at least, how we've been doing things in TOMU. |
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| GordonIronsmith Posts: 434
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #44833 Posted: Jun 22, 2010, 5:00 pm |
| For me spell casting golems are a no, There has to be the human(or I should say biological) component for there to be magic, at least until something gets added in game that flips that assumption on it's head. |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #44835 Posted: Jun 22, 2010, 10:04 pm |
Yeah, I was going to use the eventual gaining of magic by some sparked golems as proof they have a soul after all. Right now, though, the lack of spellcasting ability and knowledge gives them a reason to create conflict which gives us a plot :/
So what can be done, then? I mean, should I start GMing this game to ensure everyone plays fair? I don't know about everyone, but I know Kaelas and Chaos`Red and I all have our enjoyment of the game diminished by this bullshit, and I strongly suspect Laidan and Gordon feel the same. I'd much rather we all just agree to be on the same page but it's blatantly clear some of us aren't on the same page with the rest. Last Edited: Jun 22, 2010, 10:19 pm |
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| Sconibulus Posts: 664
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 123 years old
| Message #44837 Posted: Jun 22, 2010, 10:21 pm |
I have Cheestery able to do a very little, magical flight for 2-3 wingbeats, fire as a lighter for a handful of seconds, maybe some other really minor stuff, after which he has to refill the power reservoir to do anything else (which doesn't take that long, as it's so small, maybe a minute or so for a full charge. It seems to be a side effect of his adaptions to disperse the excess power, which also imbued him with a little bit of consciousness.
I don't think this hurts anything we've got going, as the results are non-scalable and the power level is negligible, but if anyone disagrees feel free to say something. |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #44839 Posted: Jun 22, 2010, 10:56 pm |
| I figure what Cheestory was doing was along the lines of how copper golems use fire-based attacks - they're spelled to do it, rather than holding a flamethrower, but that's how they're built. They're not able to decide tomorrow that they want to cast ice spells instead, because they weren't built with ice spells - the original creator enchanted them to work that way. |
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| Kaelas Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 124 years old
Real Name: Barry
| Message #44850 Posted: Jun 23, 2010, 8:16 am |
I've rather carefully made sure that none of my golems can do magic of any kind. As matter of fact, that's something of an issue with some of them, given that you need magic to make new golems. Alpha, Kaelas's original golem and the first to be Sparked, has learned every aspect of golemancy there is- and still can't make a golem because he lacks the ability to affect the world with magic.
I don't see a problem with golems using magical devices- scrolls, doodads, etc- made by Magi for them but casting magic should be out of their reach unless they have a very good reason. Lucy being the reinsoulment of a Magus is a good reason. Not sure what Shadow's background is entirely, but he seems to be somehow linked to Kyomi in a soul-deep fashion so that might end up good too.
Cheestory's cantrips are both trivial and very similar to in-game golem ablities so that seems okay- pushing it a little but it's non-combat and just flavor so I'd okay it if I was GM. Petros seems out of place. I get that he has a soul- but so do the Sparked golems. It's not him having a soul or not. It's not that I dislike your idea for Petros, just that he seems rather OP, particularly for a golem.
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| Thuriya Posts: 76
Location: Jaaron
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #44860 Posted: Jun 24, 2010, 1:33 am |
I suppose I should weigh in at least once. :)
I view golems as semi-autonomous tools relying on pre-programmed sets of instructions from their controlling Magus.
I think of their powersources/animating spirits as self recharging batteries that will draw on the operating magus for energy, with the tactical effects being shown by rate of energy consumption in combat, which is reflected by the energy level of a powersource.
Spells and the larger movement (like traveling) also draw from this energy source, but the cost of use is dependent of the magus efficiency in 'programming' as reflected by motivation. There is a certain level you can't go below to accomplish a task (min 6 to attack and a fixed spell cost). Hence why the Stables reduce moti costs, your golem is self powered for less time since it hitched a ride on a cart part of the way. :).
I view the communication spells/abilities that I've shown in RP as similar in nature. They are drawing from the potential energy pool of the powersource reducing the moti of the controlling mage, with the self-destruct being a instant catastrophic (at close range at least) release of the stored energy. |
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| Thuriya Posts: 76
Location: Jaaron
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #44862 Posted: Jun 24, 2010, 1:41 am |
Almost forgot, while I think golems have personalities, its mostly projected unconsciously by the mage, sorta like in RL I view my Roomba's and my car having different personalities as well. :)
Although I'm not sure how 'sparked' golems feed into that. Pseudo-AI still drawing energy from the controlling mage I think. But that's one of the reasons I don't RP a 'sparked' one at all.
I haven't decided yet how my character feels about tools who decide for themselves if they should be used and how. She can work along side them if their goals match, but that's a practical approach, not a philosophical one.
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #45255 Posted: Jul 18, 2010, 9:21 pm |
...is there a reason someone hates Viktor's birthday party so much they're crashing it with zombies? Seriously?
ETA: Not that there aren't good reasons to do something like this, just... it seems incredibly out of the blue. And what happened to the courtesy of messaging someone if you're going to bring a whole new plot arc into their thread? I was kind of hoping to close the thread soon...Last Edited: Jul 18, 2010, 9:53 pm |
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| GordonIronsmith Posts: 434
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #45256 Posted: Jul 18, 2010, 10:13 pm |
Ya... I think it might be something about golem vs human movement, but really I think I'm about to call the birthday ball a lost cause and pulling out. I'd like to finish this, but it's taking to long (It's been over 3 months people)
I think the main problem is the time frame these RP's are occurring in, because when it takes a week for everyone to post once, we forget things, and plot holes and character flaws begin to run rampant. (I've noticed some of my characters acting totaly different from the start of the story and the end of it.) |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #45257 Posted: Jul 18, 2010, 10:36 pm |
Yeah. I'm all for people being opposed to sentient golems - I very much would like to have people playing opposite the sentient golem movement - but... out of nowhere at the end of the thread might not be the time to bring this up. Three months of RP, and not a single word about it; not a word in my inbox, either, giving me a heads up.
The time frame issue is pretty much a given for forum RPs, however. I prefer IRC-based RPs, but a forum is what we have that everyone can access, so I'm getting used to it. |
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masterslugPosts: 619 Location: Shuul Magus Age: 130 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #45265 Posted: Jul 19, 2010, 10:09 am |
Ok edited posts in Birthday ball. Please note there where no actual zombies I was just using the word as a description of a mass of flesh golems.
Sorry to crash thread without PM you Kaelas, my bad, hope I didn't annoy you. I was so taken with the genius of the developing plot that mostly used cunning rather than high level magic that failed completely to observe the correct rituals of RP.
Yamikuronue it may seem obvious to you but for those of us who don't have your vast experience or online RP could you add that to your rules.Last Edited: Jul 19, 2010, 10:50 am |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #45269 Posted: Jul 19, 2010, 7:52 pm |
Acting as you have only reflects badly on your own maturity - specifically, the sniping at me is unnecessary and does not help the situation.
I'm really tired of being "the bad guy" here every time I mention something. |
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masterslugPosts: 619 Location: Shuul Magus Age: 130 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #45270 Posted: Jul 19, 2010, 7:54 pm |
| A polite PM rather than a public humiliation would help your cause a bit maybe. |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #45271 Posted: Jul 19, 2010, 7:59 pm |
Would it? Every time something occurs and I point out it's not cool, no matter how many people I talk to in private about it, it always boils down to, "Yami's a bitch and she made me change it because she's a control freak!"
I raised a question about the thread in the OOC where others could weigh in. I waited for you to give an explanation. Instead you deleted everything with a series of potshots abut how I'm so mean to you. Following normal procedure, nothing else will be said until someone else pulls something unusual, and I make a comment, and the same thing happens. I'm a person too, guys, and I'm tired of being treated like shit because I'm trying to do some level of quality control on the RP. I could use some support here rather than constantly being made out to be the bad guy. So when I mention something I do so where others can weigh in, like Gordon did - so it's obvious it's not just me. Not that most of the people I talk to about it ever do, but a PM implies I'm the only one who feels that way, and I don't want to become some kind of dictator. |
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laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #45272 Posted: Jul 19, 2010, 8:28 pm |
For my 2 cents, I think we need some sort of guidelines for posting in RP. I agree that you shouldn't just toss a new plot element into an existing thread without checking in with the creators of that thread first (and for what it's worth MS, I think your plot arc might be interesting, but piling it in after Petros' mess was just too much). If people want to go off on wild power trips rather than staying roughly within the games established structure then make your own threads for that, but don't force your super-powers on other peoples plots.
Part of the problem seems to be a loosely defined world, and no dedicated "GM" (though the loose definitions can be fun too). My proposal would be that each thread-creator is roughly their own GM, so that everyone can have their fun, and people can participate in whichever RPs they enjoy, I guess sort of a "similar dimensions" sort of thing. If you want to throw a new element into an existing arc, message that GM and discuss the idea. If you have a cool idea that won't fit in to the established plot lines, start your own and I expect someone will show up to play along.
(edited to break up the huge block of text)Last Edited: Jul 19, 2010, 8:41 pm |
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masterslugPosts: 619 Location: Shuul Magus Age: 130 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #45273 Posted: Jul 19, 2010, 8:31 pm |
I made a mistake, would a small nudge have been so hard. How about nurturing RP rather than disparaging people that don't live up to your standards. If a post is obviously aimed at one person (even if you left my name of, for what ever reason) then surly that is a PM job with maybe a more general post about maintaining thread etiquette. Rather than picking out one person to ridicule to illustrate your point, you want support for that! Well I for one plan to make your job a lot easier.
EDIT: Sorry Laiden I didn't mean to ignor your post we just went at the same time. I take your point, although I wasn't on a mad power trip the attack wouldn't have reach the guards, flesh against missile weapons, it was a set up for a thread I had planned although I do realise I made a mistake in how I did it and it seems that my attempts to fix it where perceived as childish so that doesn't bode well for me running a thread. :)Last Edited: Jul 19, 2010, 8:38 pm |
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masterslugPosts: 619 Location: Shuul Magus Age: 130 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #45275 Posted: Jul 19, 2010, 9:22 pm |
Ok chatted to some one about this and am calmer now.
Yamikuronue I have removed unnecessary comments from BB thread that under mind you. I still think you often wrong in your approach but I do appreciate the fact that you are a least trying to improve RP and like the rest of us are learning along the way. |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #45277 Posted: Jul 19, 2010, 10:24 pm |
Who are the regulars here? Myself, Kaelas, Sconi (when he can be prodded into it), Chaos, Laidan, Nanashi, Kyomi, Masterslug, Semaj, Gordon, and various alts.
Before I say a word on here, I go into the chat; Laidan, Nanashi, Sconi, Chaos, Kaelas, and myself all hang out there. I talk to people about how they feel. In this particular case, everyone but Sconi (who hasn't been online) have agreed that the zombies were a bad move, often without being prompted.
Gordon, meanwhile, sends and replies to PMs; he expressed a similar sentiment in this thread.
How is it that when six of the ten regulars agree about something, and I post about it, it becomes some kind of personal crusade of mine? How is it that pointing this out in public so others can chime in their $.02 becomes "picking out one person to ridicule"?
Should I have PM'd you? I suppose. Now that I know you prefer a PM I'll be sure to do so in the future. Was I "ridiculing" you? I asked a question. Why did it occur. You have yet to answer; you insist it was part of an "ongoing plot" that was mentioned nowhere others can see. I should probably have PM'd you in the same way you should have PM'd me or Kaelas about this "ongoing plot" since it seems to be meant to dovetail into a plot we're already running. Since you posted in public about it with no explanation, I responded in public asking for one.
I've been RPing for a long time now; this board is unique and unlike any other I've been involved with in that there's no central authority. This makes things difficult, because it means everything pretty much runs on the consensus of the players. It is not cool to somehow pin everything on me when it was, in fact, the consensus of the majority of the players. From now on, I'm implementing a new personal rule: if you express an opinion to me about the RP, and you do not explicitly tell me to keep it secret, I'm taking that as permission to quote you when I post about it on the forums. And believe me, I will quote you. The issues with Semaj and now this issue with the zombie post have shown that I can't rely on anyone to post their own opinions, only to bitch to me about it in private.
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That said. Thank you for editing your replies. I understand things can get emotional when stuff like this comes up and appreciate your attempts to be more rational about this.
As far as the GM thing - I've usually seen it that a person is in charge of a plotline, not a specific thread; for example, anyone wanting to post anything to do with the wraith invasion plot would have to message Gordon to be sure it's okay, whether it's introducing a new twist into an existing thread or starting a new thread. Does that seem like a good rule to you guys? I can keep a post in the sticky tracking who's running what plotline, for ease of reference, if you want. Last Edited: Jul 19, 2010, 10:28 pm |
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HalfteaPosts: 1307 Location: Darghelm Magus Age: 139 years old Clan: ADV | Message #45279 Posted: Jul 20, 2010, 2:57 am |
| Yes please on the sticky. I may not post frequently, but I do follow everyone else's postings, and keeping track of who is running what makes things easier, even if only in my head. :) |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #45282 Posted: Jul 20, 2010, 4:55 am |
| Whether or not we introduce a rule about PMing people, I've put up the directory of current plots. Message me if something's going on that I missed. |
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| Kaelas Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 124 years old
Real Name: Barry
| Message #45283 Posted: Jul 20, 2010, 5:10 am |
As one of those people that is all too often too lazy to post what I say in IRC or the like, I'll post now.
Old:
I completely agree that we need to tone down the powers levels and try to stick to what is based on the actual game-play and sparse world setting history/culture. For instance, my character is a port from previous RP. Kaelas has immense power, enough that he could easily erase, say, England from not only the earth, but also from museums, history books and literal maps. That... wouldn't fit in this game. So I limited his power by saying his innate magic doesn't react well with Muelsfellian magic- in the 'blow his head up' kind of way. Import your favorite characters, by all means. Just... tweak them somewhat so they fit.
New:
As for the more specific and more current issue- the idea of 'original poster is also GM' sounds workable. At the least, it would be polite to either PM or create an OCC thread asking/informing the OP about your new plot ideas. Or any big changes in the thread's direction.
Future:
/signed for the idea of people being given GM powers over their own Plot Arcs. In addition to the OP rule though, but that's more for politeness than anything else. It can be rather annoying to have this idea for where a thread needs to go, only to have someone else completely derail it. Not saying such a derail post, in and of itself, would necessarily bad. But even an awesome thing could throw off a carefully detailed schedule.
Specifically for the latest case of such, the biggest reason why I was so put off by the fleshie attack was because of the abruptness. Laiden did have a point as well- after the Semaj/Petros event, anything else happening would have been less welcomed that it would by its own virtue. |
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masterslugPosts: 619 Location: Shuul Magus Age: 130 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #45287 Posted: Jul 20, 2010, 9:49 am |
| masterslug said:
I made a mistake,
masterslug said:
I made a mistake in how I did it
masterslug said:
Sorry to crash thread without PM you Kaelas, my bad,
masterslug said:
failed completely to observe the correct rituals of RP
Never argued about if you where right or not Yamikuronue so you can make that 7 out of 10 if you are worried about numbers.
Have you worked in an office? What you did is like the person who walks into the canteen and see a dirty mug on the side. "Why cant people wash up their own mugs" in a loud voice. You can see it's it's Dave's mug, it says Dave's mug on the side every one in there saw Dave drinking from Dave's mug. Every one in there know you're talking about Dave. Dave was sitting in the corner having a conversation with his new work mates. Dave is now mortified and embarrassed and the first seed of hating his shiny new job starts to bloom. You may have been in the right but how does Dave now well about you?
My mistake was to get petty. In that situation you put your head down, take the humiliation and start looking for a new job. |
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NanashiPosts: 1115 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 126 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #45291 Posted: Jul 20, 2010, 4:30 pm |
The situation seems to have been handled badly on multiple sides, and by situation I mean the latter half of the thread. Seems Chaos was working overtime >>
Anyway, hopefully we can all agree to apologize, shake hands, and learn to work better in the future. I know and freely admit that I have made mistakes and god-moded on things. Anything we do is a learning process, if you aren't learning... you're already dead.
Also, it might be noted that the Birthday Ball was in closing, if I remember correctly. People were supposed to say final dialogue and make their exit so it could end and be locked.
A horde of flesh golems could be useful but at another time. Also you might consider letting it build across a couple turns(posts) rather than "OMG HORDE!" Just a thought. |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #45296 Posted: Jul 20, 2010, 8:01 pm |
| MS, it doesn't help that I took two of those admittances as sarcastic, given that they were directly adjacent to passive-aggressive jabs at me. If you actually meant them, then I apologize for being quite as irritated as I have been. |
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