| Author | Thread: Armor analysis and questions |
| Panili Posts: 19
Location: Ibonbourg
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #4857 Posted: Jun 17, 2008, 5:47 am |
I have a level 2 Iron that is armored with light iron plate, I ran this golem against the level 10 practice dummy for 3 combats and took at look at the results, but they came out interesting. Here is the results of the combats:
Location, Armor Pieces, Total Damage, # of hits, Average
Head, 1, 53, 5, 10.6
Abdomen, 1, 69, 8, 8.625
Chest, 3, 131, 16, 8.1875
Pelvis, 2, 32, 4, 8
R. Leg, 2, 23, 3, 7.667
L. Leg, 2, 53, 6, 8.833
R. Arm, 1, 30, 3, 10
L. Arm, 2, 44, 6, 7.333
R. Hand, 1, 0, 0, 0
L. Hand, 1, 8, 1, 8
Looking at this, the total armor pieces seem to have no impact whatsoever. The chest, with it's 3 armor pieces is sitting at very similar average hit numbers as slots with 1 or 2 pieces of armor. It also seems the code tends to like to hit the left side of a golum more often than the right, though that may be a randomness factor due to my small sample set.
So here is my question. Outside of the extra slots in head/abdomen (and sometimes chest) for carrying bigger items, what use are the extra slots in other places?Last Edited: Jun 17, 2008, 5:59 am |
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| Poseidon Posts: 241
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 119 years old
Real Name: Jack Website: Click HereEmail: kingclown00@hotmail.com | Message #4861 Posted: Jun 17, 2008, 6:57 am |
I've been considering this same subject, though more on whether leveled-up golems are worth it rather than whether or not armor is worth it.
Here's how this works. Depending on your golem's strength, it has a set amount of damage that it will never hit less than, no matter how much resistance you have. For every 10 points of strength, you gain a +1 bonus to your minimum damage.
Light iron plates give enough resistance to bring most golems and even monsters down to their minimum damage. Adding more only subtracts from your carry capacity.
Which makes me wonder if level 5 in ANY golem type is worth it. Or if level 3 is even worth it, for that matter. The extra slots do nothing considering the minimum damage equation, and reach alone is not enough to warrant the motivation increase with level, at least in my eyes. |
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laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #4880 Posted: Jun 17, 2008, 3:39 pm |
| So does anyone know how armor effects the damage from clan weapons? |
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ZugZugPosts: 300 Location: Ibonbourg Magus Age: 125 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #4908 Posted: Jun 17, 2008, 7:04 pm |
Well, I can tell you my armor and weapon experiences from trying a bunch of different combos to get the best loot/exp ratio against the Zaulfang swamp guys.
The lvl 5 lizard guy appears to do piercing damage, with a minimum of 4. It appears that different monsters have different minimum damage amounts. At first we thought it was doing multiple damage types, but it seems as though it's just different damage minimums for different monsters. Crits will deal 8 damage. 12 piercing armor is what will achieve minimum damage from this guy.
The bog mummy also is minimum 4. My fleshie always does 2 damage to him, but with a bronze sword will do 4-7. However, I get half the amount of attacks. Really makes it a toss up as to what will consistantly give the most damage per round. I have not tested the weapon in pvp to see what the minimum amount with the sword would be against armor.
The spined troll skeleton does a minimum of 7 damage. I haven't researched it enough to figure out if minimum damage is based on the level of the monster or the individual monster itself. It is also quite possible that the monster is doing multiple types of damage. |
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| Panili Posts: 19
Location: Ibonbourg
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #4910 Posted: Jun 17, 2008, 7:15 pm |
So, what I am in fact seeing is a result of minimum damage. That makes putting more than 1 piece of light iron plate per slot a waste. I really could only see you putting different armor types in the same slots to reduce exotic damage types.
That also pisses me off quite a bit, as I have already dumped a bunch of XP into this iron golems strength so he could be fully loaded with light iron plate and still carry a shield.
Well, live and learn I suppose. I guess the leveled up golems are only really useful for their HP to provide a bigger buffer on your door guard. |
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ZugZugPosts: 300 Location: Ibonbourg Magus Age: 125 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #4916 Posted: Jun 17, 2008, 7:32 pm |
You are correct. The extra slots could be used for copper bands to provide fire resistance or something. Or to provide armor against 2 types of damage if you use the golem against different monsters. For example, my clay golem only fights the lizard, so he only wears chainmail since 1 piece provides the max protection. However, if I wanted to use him against the lizard and say, the ogre, who does slashing damage and impact damage (from his mace), then I would combine different armor types.
It all depends on your usage and what you're trying to achieve. I found the best way to experiment was to load up on 1 armor type and then remove pieces until I found the "breaking point" where I would take more than min. damage.
Also, the sword appears to do a minimum of 2x your golem's fist minimum. I *think* 1 armor point equals -1 damage point. I really have no idea how base damage + weapon bonuses work. My fleshie with the sword is supposed to do 3 impact, 5 slash, 2 pierce, 2 cold with the +1 damage modifier. Between the +10% acc of the sword and +14% of the emerald eyes, I should be hitting more often with the sword than I do, but it appears that I miss with the sword as much as I do with my fists.
Hmm, thinking about my fleshie means that monsters probably don't do multiple damage types to you. Otherwise I would think I'd do a min. 2 damage for each type (when using the sword), rather than just a plain min. of 4. It's really quite confusing. |
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laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #4928 Posted: Jun 17, 2008, 8:45 pm |
| I can tell you that monster damage is not entirely level based, as the yeti does considerably more damage than the mummy, both level 4. The mummy seems to do impact damage, not sure on the yeti. |
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ZugZugPosts: 300 Location: Ibonbourg Magus Age: 125 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #4929 Posted: Jun 17, 2008, 8:59 pm |
| Impact? Hrm, I always figured claws = slicing. |
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laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #4932 Posted: Jun 17, 2008, 10:00 pm |
| Hmm, guess it could be piercing too, but not slashing. |
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| Yonk Posts: 105
Location: Villuno
Magus Age: 132 years old
| Message #4990 Posted: Jun 18, 2008, 3:10 pm |
| ... and don't forget that having multiple slots allows for using cheaper armour to attain the same resistances. A whole bunch of iron studs and leather straps can give the same resistances (or more) than light iron, but at a fraction of the cash cost. |
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ZugZugPosts: 300 Location: Ibonbourg Magus Age: 125 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #4992 Posted: Jun 18, 2008, 3:52 pm |
However there comes a point when you're using a lot more weight to carry all those studs and straps than you would for the light iron.
My fleshie has just chainmail in the chest spot which weighs a mere 12lbs. I get 6 impact, 9 slice, 11 pierce protection which gives me max damage resistance from the bog mummy, whatever kind of damage he does. Occasionally 5 damage slips through, but rarely. I can't get any armor combo to add up to that kind of slice/pierce protection without it weighing a lot more than 12lbs. |
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| Yonk Posts: 105
Location: Villuno
Magus Age: 132 years old
| Message #4999 Posted: Jun 18, 2008, 4:30 pm |
Chainmail gives 3,8,10 for 5.5k iron, 700 gold, 12lb. Plus your golem's base resist I assume. I'm using the artificier values here.
3 studs and a strap gives 17,8,10 for 3k iron, 500 flesh, 175 gold, 17lb.
It weighs 5 lb more, but costs about half the resources and almost 1/4 the cash... and takes four slots instead of one.
2 studs and 2 straps give 14,8,8 for 2k iron, 1k flesh, 150 gold, 14 lb.
Only weighs 2lb more and gives almost as good protection for an even lower cost, unless the mummy does mad piercing damage.Last Edited: Jun 18, 2008, 4:35 pm |
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ZugZugPosts: 300 Location: Ibonbourg Magus Age: 125 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #5010 Posted: Jun 18, 2008, 5:34 pm |
| True, but my lvl 1 flesh doesn't have that many chest slots. Plus, I like loot so I try to minimize my weight. It all depends on what you want I think. I haven't thoroughly tested it, but I think 8 armor will not net you minimum damage. I still think the mummy does slicing, as I only have 9 for that and 5 damage comes through now and then, while with 11 piercing even the lvl 5 lizard does only minimum. |
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| Meloam Posts: 68
Location: Fellin
Magus Age: 119 years old
| Message #5022 Posted: Jun 18, 2008, 7:35 pm |
| Dont forget that now that clan items are out, you need slots to carry those. If you want your hand armored, and you want that hand to hold a weapon, you need more slots. And there are items that fit to other areas as well. |
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| Sepren Posts: 70
Location: Dethsfell Rest
Magus Age: 135 years old
| Message #5226 Posted: Jun 22, 2008, 4:25 pm |
| Panili said:
I have a level 2 Iron that is armored with light iron plate, I ran this golem against the level 10 practice dummy for 3 combats and took at look at the results, but they came out interesting. Here is the results of the combats:
Location, Armor Pieces, Total Damage, # of hits, Average
Head, 1, 53, 5, 10.6
Abdomen, 1, 69, 8, 8.625
Chest, 3, 131, 16, 8.1875
Pelvis, 2, 32, 4, 8
R. Leg, 2, 23, 3, 7.667
L. Leg, 2, 53, 6, 8.833
R. Arm, 1, 30, 3, 10
L. Arm, 2, 44, 6, 7.333
R. Hand, 1, 0, 0, 0
L. Hand, 1, 8, 1, 8
Looking at this, the total armor pieces seem to have no impact whatsoever. The chest, with it's 3 armor pieces is sitting at very similar average hit numbers as slots with 1 or 2 pieces of armor. It also seems the code tends to like to hit the left side of a golum more often than the right, though that may be a randomness factor due to my small sample set.
So here is my question. Outside of the extra slots in head/abdomen (and sometimes chest) for carrying bigger items, what use are the extra slots in other places?
I agree with the point. Whats the point of all these slots if there is no added benefit? If I set up my golem to be a walking pile of armor I expect it to be hard to beat up on em. |
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