| Author | Thread: Game Feedback |
| Sterling Posts: 157
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #487 Posted: Mar 23, 2008, 12:06 am |
So, I've been playing a few days, and since this is Beta, wanted to give some feedback on the game overall.
1. The UI is pretty good. Lots of complexity, but well worth it. The site is well designed, pleasing colors, no glitches.
One frustrating bit is moving the golem to various areas. The option should to do that should be placed on the golem screen, having to constantly transit to the basement to do it is a bit annoying.
Another is the top links - 3 layers of links at the top to navigate is a stumbling block for newbs. I would put them along the left, make them bigger buttons, clearer on the hierarchy of them too.
2. Gameplay
I like the fighting, though it happens too infrequently to me. I think overall the biggest improvement the game needs is pacing adjustments.
For instance, combat occurs very seldom, and is broken up by short enforced waits in between. That in particular is a no-no on browser games to me. Their beauty is getting to play them when you want. Having to wait between attacks against NPCs means you get the worst of both worlds for a browser and non-browser game. You have to wait around on the machine with nothing going on.
There's also a lot of pacing difficulty with your golem and upgrading it. The golem is the coolest part of the game - but I've spent the last 3 days doing nothing but fighting with the golem I got at the beginning, and not upgrading it at all, instead upgrading my workshop - because getting upgrades for the golem is such a long process to get to (since it requires the high-resource library)
You should at least let people start experimenting a bit more with equipment or such things early on - but even that is a fail, since the only equipment I can make (the new eyes and the power source) is either A: Worse than the glass eyes I got in the tutorial or B: Default and not really something I 'play' with.
So overall, you have a relatively long wait till you feel like you're 'playing' the game, rather than grinding to get to that point.
I think it would be easy to adjust the pacing so that on the first day, you at least felt like you had some options on what to do with the golem, and perhaps by the 3rd you were considering what golem you'd be building next. You should probably do that before going to 'release' or risk turning off a lot of customers.
Another pacing difficulty is that I feel like I have no clue what I'm aiming toward - no idea at this point what the better equipment I might eventually get is, what I need to do to fight the next level of monsters, etc. This lowers my anticipation to keep going.
3. Concept
I love it. The golem thing is really cool. I like the idea of constructing them and battling with them.
4. World
The fact that the world functions are spread amongst various towns is kind of cool, but the way you have to move to fight monsters, and the potential disadvantage to being in a bad or constrained area isn't good. Finding out that based on something you had no control over before the game even started, you're in a weak position, is probably the #1 reason people quit browser games after they've been playing for a while.
The landscape stuff seems like an annoying hassle since there is little I can do about it, and its effects are not clearly spelled out to me anyway. It would be cool if there was more control over where you fight, though currently only people near the edge of a divide get that, otherwise you're wasting the most precious commodity, motivation, to affect that.
5. Resources
I like the diversity. Having them essentially have to march in lock step at the early part of the game hinders that - if there were more things to do with resources other than repair the one golem type you had access to (hint, give access to other types earlier) or upgrade stuff, it'd be better.
Anyway, that's it for now. I do see a lot of potential in the game, but I think some big tweaks, particularly in pacing, are needed before you take it really public.
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| Kashik Posts: 1
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 119 years old
| Message #488 Posted: Mar 23, 2008, 2:40 am |
"For instance, combat occurs very seldom, and is broken up by short enforced waits in between. That in particular is a no-no on browser games to me. Their beauty is getting to play them when you want. Having to wait between attacks against NPCs means you get the worst of both worlds for a browser and non-browser game. You have to wait around on the machine with nothing going on."
The timer is something I would really like to see dropped, at least for PvE encounters. There's already a limitation built in by the Motivation required to fight. The timer just makes it hard to find time to fight in what should be a flexible browser game, in my opinion.
I would prefer just the motivation limit, partially because I've seen how well an "adventure limit" works in Kingdom of Loathing. I think a timer on PvP encounters would still be a wise idea, though.
~Kashik |
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| Sterling Posts: 157
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #489 Posted: Mar 23, 2008, 2:45 am |
Yeah I agree, drop the timer for PvE.
And for PvP encounters, a few minutes is a really short timer - most browser games I've seen enforce a daily maximum on how often you can attack the same person, or attack and get a reward. Many are something like 2-10 times per day, max. Whereas, with this system, with two people relatively close by, you could keep hitting someone 100 times a day if you wanted, which is just griefing, it's not fun. |
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| Poseidon Posts: 241
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 113 years old
Real Name: Jack Website: Click HereEmail: kingclown00@hotmail.com | Message #491 Posted: Mar 23, 2008, 3:41 am |
| not quite. you could in theory attack different people that many times if you had the motivation, but if you use the same golem on the same person too many times you get a message saying to switch golems or switch targets. Sterling said:
Yeah I agree, drop the timer for PvE.
And for PvP encounters, a few minutes is a really short timer - most browser games I've seen enforce a daily maximum on how often you can attack the same person, or attack and get a reward. Many are something like 2-10 times per day, max. Whereas, with this system, with two people relatively close by, you could keep hitting someone 100 times a day if you wanted, which is just griefing, it's not fun. |
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| Aethian Posts: 17
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 113 years old
| Message #492 Posted: Mar 23, 2008, 3:45 am |
| I think it would be cool that each golem have a certain amount of motivation. That way people would have to create more then one powerhouse golem. |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #493 Posted: Mar 23, 2008, 3:31 pm |
Thanks for the feedback. Definitely some good thoughts.
1. Interface: There's a Premium sidebar option that shows up on golem.php which lets folks move a golem to another location without having to return to the basement.
The number of links along the top is a bit of a problem, but there are a lot of pages that need to be relatively easy to access. I can't move anything along the left unfortunately or else the layout will break at small resolutions (800x600). I could remove the About link (when logged in), since that's a bit redundant with the Help one right next to it. And maybe some sort of help hover that explains the hierarchy... hm. Will have to ponder that.
2. Gameplay: The travel time was done solely to provide opportunity for other magi to attack your workshop while your golem was away, with the idea that folks would have to strategize their attacks against other players. It works to a limited extent -- I've seen folks send a flesh against a guy with a stone golem to lure him out, the person with the stone retalitated, and then the first guy and his friend raided the workshop while the stone golem was returning.
Unfortunately, I don't see that dynamic working quite like I was hoping, so I'm not against reconsidering it. I could also lower it drastically against monsters... I'll need a day or so to mull this over and review data before I make a decision.
Also good points about the pacing of upgrading the golem. I could add more eye and armour options that are available sooner.
Another pacing difficulty is that I feel like I have no clue what I'm aiming toward - no idea at this point what the better equipment I might eventually get is, what I need to do to fight the next level of monsters, etc. This lowers my anticipation to keep going.
Is this a case of not having documentation about better equipment, or the game not being clear in other ways? Right now documentation on the help pages is admittedly weak.
I especially would like to hear suggestions on remedying this issue.
3. Concept: Thanks! :)
4. World: I'm pondering letting players change their workshop location. The mechanics are already in place, but only allow you to do it if your workshop has been destroyed and has a time delay. Originally this was going to be one-time Prem perk, but I think folks may need access to this more regularly.
Here are my thoughts: Add a simple relocation office to, for example, Mottonsborough. Let folks pick their new location from a list that gives a brief description and what the terrain is like (and possibly a sample of magi already in that area). The cost will be comparatively low but not negligible and take 24 hours to complete to prevent folks from changing their workshops ALL the time.
Incidently, you'll eventually be able to modify the terrain in your workshop area (plant/clear trees, move away/add rocks, drain/deepen swamps, etc). This won't be implemented until after clans are finished, however.
Bear in mind that this week I've got to focus on work so will be unable to implement anything except the most simple of upgrades/tweaks.
Thanks again for the feedback, keep it coming folks. :)
Kep |
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| Daniel Posts: 102
Location: Last Alvia Dawning
Magus Age: 114 years old
Real Name: Daniel
| Message #498 Posted: Mar 23, 2008, 7:52 pm |
If you do allow people to change their location for a price, Why not make it so its more expensive to move the second time than it was the first, and so on and so forth.
I personally like the 'travel time', As much as it annoys me (Yes, I know, I'm a hypocrite sometimes) it allows for pacing, I click to attack a mudhound, repair if I have to, And go back to the area view while I check other sites, watch anime, and such. I'm going to post a few suggestion spells in the thread to get around 'travel time' at a cost (motivation and golem energy on most)
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| Sterling Posts: 157
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #503 Posted: Mar 23, 2008, 11:02 pm |
| The number of links along the top is a bit of a problem, but there are a lot of pages that need to be relatively easy to access. I can't move anything along the left unfortunately or else the layout will break at small resolutions (800x600). I could remove the About link (when logged in), since that's a bit redundant with the Help one right next to it. And maybe some sort of help hover that explains the hierarchy... hm. Will have to ponder that.
Yeah I can see the difficulty with 800x600. Hmmm. Maybe just moving the player info to someplace else, perhaps the sidebar, and just having a character link up top would get rid of one of the bars.
The travel time was done solely to provide opportunity for other magi to attack your workshop while your golem was away, with the idea that folks would have to strategize their attacks against other players. It works to a limited extent -- I've seen folks send a flesh against a guy with a stone golem to lure him out, the person with the stone retalitated, and then the first guy and his friend raided the workshop while the stone golem was returning.
Well, I'm still ok with having the travel time be there for PVP, it makes sense as a gameplay element there. I will be honest, I have not done any PVP yet, so I don't know how well it works there yet. I just think that a browser game shouldn't try and tie you to the browser for 30 minutes while you do all your attacks - kind of the antithesis of what a slow browser based game should do. I like the 'store up some turns and go' model that applies to games like Kingdom of Loathing.
Is this a case of not having documentation about better equipment, or the game not being clear in other ways? Right now documentation on the help pages is admittedly weak.
Documentation would help, but I think that you can't rely on people reading it (Btw, awesome tutorial, I see you realize that yourself :) ).
Having a preview of what the next few items you can make if you achieved library level X would help more. And perhaps, have more buildings related to research/construction - I mean, resource gathering is way less interesting that making golem stuff, so it's weird that there are 7 buildings related to resource gathering/storage, and only 3 that have to do with making stuff - and really only 1 that is a big gating factor.
I would perhaps split the library into one or more for golems parts, one for weapons, one for equipment. And think about how to make it so that these separate buildings don't end up marching in lockstep so that players have some choices about specializing in the various types - you'd have to tie their construction to something that's a bit more linear, perhaps, like the accrual of the secondary resources, probably.
Here are my thoughts: Add a simple relocation office to, for example, Mottonsborough. Let folks pick their new location from a list that gives a brief description and what the terrain is like (and possibly a sample of magi already in that area). The cost will be comparatively low but not negligible and take 24 hours to complete to prevent folks from changing their workshops ALL the time.
That sounds good to me. :)
Bear in mind that this week I've got to focus on work so will be unable to implement anything except the most simple of upgrades/tweaks.
No worries. :) The fact that you're responding to feedback and talking to your players is really great. I hope the feedback is useful to you, I think your game has potential, I hope to be playing it when it's all polished and awesome. But everyone here probably realizes you're a single developer with limited time, and doing this for your own fun as well, I don't think anyone should be griping that this or that feature isn't implemented, just trying to offer constructive feedback from a player's perspective.
Thanks for listening! Arkham said: Thanks for the feedback. Definitely some good thoughts. 1. Interface: There's a Premium sidebar option that shows up on golem.php which lets folks move a golem to another location without having to return to the basement. The number of links along the top is a bit of a problem, but there are a lot of pages that need to be relatively easy to access. I can't move anything along the left unfortunately or else the layout will break at small resolutions (800x600). I could remove the About link (when logged in), since that's a bit redundant with the Help one right next to it. And maybe some sort of help hover that explains the hierarchy... hm. Will have to ponder that. 2. Gameplay: The travel time was done solely to provide opportunity for other magi to attack your workshop while your golem was away, with the idea that folks would have to strategize their attacks against other players. It works to a limited extent -- I've seen folks send a flesh against a guy with a stone golem to lure him out, the person with the stone retalitated, and then the first guy and his friend raided the workshop while the stone golem was returning. Unfortunately, I don't see that dynamic working quite like I was hoping, so I'm not against reconsidering it. I could also lower it drastically against monsters... I'll need a day or so to mull this over and review data before I make a decision. Also good points about the pacing of upgrading the golem. I could add more eye and armour options that are available sooner. Another pacing difficulty is that I feel like I have no clue what I'm aiming toward - no idea at this point what the better equipment I might eventually get is, what I need to do to fight the next level of monsters, etc. This lowers my anticipation to keep going. Is this a case of not having documentation about better equipment, or the game not being clear in other ways? Right now documentation on the help pages is admittedly weak. I especially would like to hear suggestions on remedying this issue. 3. Concept: Thanks! :) 4. World: I'm pondering letting players change their workshop location. The mechanics are already in place, but only allow you to do it if your workshop has been destroyed and has a time delay. Originally this was going to be one-time Prem perk, but I think folks may need access to this more regularly. Here are my thoughts: Add a simple relocation office to, for example, Mottonsborough. Let folks pick their new location from a list that gives a brief description and what the terrain is like (and possibly a sample of magi already in that area). The cost will be comparatively low but not negligible and take 24 hours to complete to prevent folks from changing their workshops ALL the time. Incidently, you'll eventually be able to modify the terrain in your workshop area (plant/clear trees, move away/add rocks, drain/deepen swamps, etc). This won't be implemented until after clans are finished, however. Bear in mind that this week I've got to focus on work so will be unable to implement anything except the most simple of upgrades/tweaks. Thanks again for the feedback, keep it coming folks. :) Kep |
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| Sterling Posts: 157
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #504 Posted: Mar 23, 2008, 11:04 pm |
| :P Ok, maybe adding and edit feature to the posts eventually would be good to - sorry about the extra quoting at the bottom of my previous one! |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #508 Posted: Mar 23, 2008, 11:33 pm |
Haha, yeah... Everytime I'm on the forums, I think to myself, "I really need to add an Edit Post button as well as letting folks change the quoted text". And then I leave the forums and end up working on something else. Hee.
The feedback is definitely very useful. Even if I don't respond directly to a particular post, I'm reading them all, keeping notes, and prioritizing changes and projects. :)
Kep Sterling said:
:P Ok, maybe adding and edit feature to the posts eventually would be good to - sorry about the extra quoting at the bottom of my previous one! |
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