| Author | Thread: add a way to stop multi acount abuse | Page 1 | 2 |
| Nageya Posts: 86
Location: Asylum
Magus Age: 111 years old
| Message #6028 Posted: Jul 4, 2008, 2:01 am |
Right now there are a few players, right now who are abusing the way multi accounts work to their advantage, the number of players that I know of doing this isn't very large but they are having a fairly large detrimental affect of the game.
Now I've done this a bit my self and it's pretty easy to abuse multi accounts with out spending real money using tickets
the simple answer to the problem is to simply disallow multi accounts entirely, but since the number of people doing this on a large scale is fairly small and becouse there are probably some people who's multi accounts are actually different people, perhaps a better way off dealing with the problem is to simply allow the users to petition to have someones multi account rights suspended.
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PeggaPosts: 702 Location: Jaaron Magus Age: 122 years old Clan: ADV | Message #6041 Posted: Jul 4, 2008, 4:25 am |
| We could also schedule a "Valentines Day Massacre" on the lead alt. Course, it probably wouldn't stop the abuse, but it would be satisfying at least for a little bit. |
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| Poseidon Posts: 241
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 113 years old
Real Name: Jack Website: Click HereEmail: kingclown00@hotmail.com | Message #6050 Posted: Jul 4, 2008, 6:57 am |
Heh. And here I thought valentines day was the one day that I am required by law to be nice to everyone.
But I suppose evil doesnt sleep...or get heart shaped cards...Last Edited: Jul 4, 2008, 6:58 am |
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JoachimPosts: 208 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: STEAM Real Name: Walt
| Message #6052 Posted: Jul 4, 2008, 7:33 am |
What really needs to be done is the following:
1. Disallow multi-accounts, period.
2. Reboot the entire player database. Start over from day 1. It's the only way to be sure. |
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| Nageya Posts: 86
Location: Asylum
Magus Age: 111 years old
| Message #6053 Posted: Jul 4, 2008, 8:01 am |
I agree that completely disallowing multi account is the best way to do it I suggested the petition to try to be fair to the people who have a legitimate reason to have two accounts in the same house, but to be honest the current way of handling multi accounts is way to easy to abuse.
I don't really mind the idea of rebooting the data base it would be intreasting to see how things develop when every ones on equal footing. |
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| Dedd Posts: 302
Location: Shilo Steppe
Magus Age: 118 years old
| Message #6058 Posted: Jul 4, 2008, 8:36 am |
I just think people should have the moral integrity and courage not to abuse multi-accounts.
I have no problem with one person having multi accounts, so long as they don't obviously interact and benefit each other (or just one of the them) to a large extent.
Also, it makes no sense in roleplaying terms... what are they supposed to be... some kind of schizophrenic super farmer magi? |
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| CommComms Posts: 392
Location: Daylsfeld
Magus Age: 121 years old
| Message #6059 Posted: Jul 4, 2008, 8:50 am |
I suspect that this message largely stems from your dislike of the "Fathers".
A petition will do nothing but create a Muelsfell witch hunt, where every time a player gets disliked by a group of others, one of them suggests he has a multi and the rest petition to have him/her banned, just because they're angry and think the best way to deal with their problems in a game is to ban a person from playing. Would you be so keen on the idea if Father Latour suggested that you had multis and all of clan MAGIER petitioned to have your account removed?
Nuking the database is just going to alienate and discourage a large number of players. I'd leave if all of my workshop and such were reset.
I agree with you that multi accounts are pretty lame, and it would be great to remove them or do something about them, but so long as there are players some of them will find a way around whatever safeguards are in place. Besides, I doubt that the removal of muli accounts would improve the game more than say... completing the spell system? Or clan combat?
If you're bothered by someone you suspect has multiple accounts, then you always have the option of obtaining Premium tickets and moving your workshop away from them. |
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| Dedd Posts: 302
Location: Shilo Steppe
Magus Age: 118 years old
| Message #6060 Posted: Jul 4, 2008, 9:00 am |
| Arthur Miller would be rolling in his grave... (He's dead right?)... |
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JoachimPosts: 208 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: STEAM Real Name: Walt
| Message #6065 Posted: Jul 4, 2008, 12:45 pm |
| CommComms said:
Nuking the database is just going to alienate and discourage a large number of players.
OMFG, talk about the irony in that statement. |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #6069 Posted: Jul 4, 2008, 2:30 pm |
| CommComms said:
If you're bothered by someone you suspect has multiple accounts, then you always have the option of obtaining Premium tickets and moving your workshop away from them.
Would that REALLY help? They can move as well, and it'd be easy to have alts spread all over the map.
The other game I play, FP, has a 3-account maximum. You're expected to use at least one of your accounts to farm cash, since showing dogs (it's a dog breeding game) costs serious in-game $$ but the Competitor career has a bit of a cash disadvantage. I'm not sure how they track it. |
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PeggaPosts: 702 Location: Jaaron Magus Age: 122 years old Clan: ADV | Message #6080 Posted: Jul 4, 2008, 4:40 pm |
| Joachim said:
2. Reboot the entire player database. Start over from day 1. It's the only way to be sure.
That's it man, game over man, game over!! |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #6082 Posted: Jul 4, 2008, 5:24 pm |
Sorry, but I'm not rebooting the database at this point. :)
Assuming growth stays constant, there will certainly be additional Muelsfell worlds (this one being World 1) where folks can "start from scratch" if they like.
The multi issue is rather tricky to resolve. Let me say right away that it would be trivial to block all interaction between accounts that the game considers linked, even if both are premium, though this will almost certainly impact some people who are not looking to take advantage of multi accounts. Roommates are an obvious example, but others would be people who play from the same office or office building, or those who play from behind a school/university proxy. In addition, some ISPs clump users together, so you'd have a few cases where players would get blocked from interacting with others using the same ISP.
This wouldn't prevent someone from starting a second account, though I could block that as well. Again, this would catch those in the same office, school, but the main reason that I'm loathe to do this is simply because of the shared ISP problem. Due to the ISP issue, I will only block new second accounts as a last resort and it's not on the table for consideration at this point.
I'd hoped that any problems with multis -- specifically, repeated attacks from related accounts -- would be handled by players via revenge attacks or just mobbing up on the offender. It'd be chaotic at first, but as the player base grew, the balance of power would eventually reach an equilibrium. I'm not convinced the player base is large enough for this to develop yet.
That being said, if the overall consensus is to kill all basic activity between multis, then I can do that. Easily.
Killing all clan based activity between multis would be a bit more difficult.
I'll give it some more thought this weekend.
Kep |
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JoachimPosts: 208 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: STEAM Real Name: Walt
| Message #6083 Posted: Jul 4, 2008, 5:43 pm |
Pegga said: Joachim said:
2. Reboot the entire player database. Start over from day 1. It's the only way to be sure. That's it man, game over man, game over!!
Glad somebody caught the reference. :) |
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| Dedd Posts: 302
Location: Shilo Steppe
Magus Age: 118 years old
| Message #6117 Posted: Jul 5, 2008, 8:23 am |
| If there is going to be a second world - which I realise might be some way off... how about making that one have "no interaction between multis" that way people have a choice? |
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| deathpunk Posts: 154
Location: Nournsland
Magus Age: 117 years old
| Message #6132 Posted: Jul 5, 2008, 4:27 pm |
I like the three account maximum, if you need more due to isp junk then i guess you could beg arkham or something. the main thing is there should be no interaction between multis, of course then people will just trade through friends... so how about making it a bannable offense?
Appoint some super-mods or something and give them access to things so they can investigate cases of multi abuse and before banning is to occur you could even let the person have a chance to explain why that account is really their friend/sister/significant other that really wants to send them all of its money:) (only halfway joking)
don't think it'll happen because elevating people to super-mod status would give them and their clan serious advantages.
oh, and the petition idea was kinda dumb... |
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| Gryficus Posts: 239
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 121 years old
| Message #6144 Posted: Jul 5, 2008, 9:04 pm |
I have less of a problem with people using multiple accounts, as long as they're premium. I mean, they're paying money, they should be able to double their income and whatever, but...
There is a bigger issue here, and it's the use of alt accounts to spy on other clans.
It's happened to us, and I've heard it's happened to others.
One thing FOR SURE has to happen and that's limit all people with the same IP to only join 1 clan.
Spying on other clans is an absolutely low thing to do, and I think anyone caught doing it should be outright banned.
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| deathpunk Posts: 154
Location: Nournsland
Magus Age: 117 years old
| Message #6174 Posted: Jul 6, 2008, 5:32 pm |
| Gryficus said:
I have less of a problem with people using multiple accounts, as long as they're premium. I mean, they're paying money, they should be able to double their income and whatever, but...
There is a bigger issue here, and it's the use of alt accounts to spy on other clans.
It's happened to us, and I've heard it's happened to others.
One thing FOR SURE has to happen and that's limit all people with the same IP to only join 1 clan.
Spying on other clans is an absolutely low thing to do, and I think anyone caught doing it should be outright banned.
No, no no no.
One of the best things about this game is that it doesn't give a huge advantage to the people who pay, if that changes you'll probably see less people sticking around.
And a reason for harmless multi-ing(that done without boosting one account over another) is to try different things. so why should they be disallowed to join different clans? yes spying sucks but you won't stop it by those means, people will just get friends to spy for them. |
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| Nageya Posts: 86
Location: Asylum
Magus Age: 111 years old
| Message #6237 Posted: Jul 7, 2008, 6:08 am |
CommComms if you take the time to read my post I suggested suspending multi account privileges not baning.
I think the best thing to do is disallow all muti-account interaction as for clan interaction the simplest thing to do would probably be to only allow one account from an isp to be a member of a clan |
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| Nageya Posts: 86
Location: Asylum
Magus Age: 111 years old
| Message #6239 Posted: Jul 7, 2008, 6:30 am |
Now I'm pretty rusty and I only have expriance in java but I'd do something along these lines to allow only one acount from an isp to join a clan:
give each clan a data base called clanISp
give each player a boolean variable called clan
give each player a variable called currentISP and lastISP
when they log in set currentisp to the isp address their using
when a user tries to join a clan search ClanISP for currentISP if a match is found do not allow them to join the clan if no mach is found add current isp to Clan isp and set the users clan variable to positive
when a user logs off make lastisp = currentisp
when a user logs in and their clan variable is positive search clanisp for lastisp and remove it then search clanisp for currentisp and if a match is found exile user from the clan and set their clan variable to negitive. if no match is found add currentisp to the clanisp
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| Endovior Posts: 172
Location: Nournsland
Magus Age: 118 years old
| Message #6276 Posted: Jul 7, 2008, 6:21 pm |
| I'm a fan of disallowing all basic activity between multis, and of Nageya's idea of disallowing all clan activity between multis. I don't multi myself, and feel like a sucker for not doing so. |
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| Gryficus Posts: 239
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 121 years old
| Message #6278 Posted: Jul 7, 2008, 6:30 pm |
Then we're just going to have spies from every clan in every other clan, going a long way to ruin clan warfare.
Here's an idea. Make it known who has the same IP (similar to Warcraft 3 banlist).
Add a section to the profile that says "XXXX has the same IP as YYYYYY and ZZZZZZ"
That would help eliminate spying AND give us an idea on who is using multi-accounts. Plus, then you leave the decisions up to the players, and don't have to hard code any solutions. |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #6284 Posted: Jul 7, 2008, 7:04 pm |
I thought long and hard about the multi issue over the weekend. Without doubt, I'll be tightening up the restrictions.
Interestingly, the idea of making a shared-IP list public was one idea I considered. The problem is that the current IP is not the only thing I track, so just having the same IP is not always a sure sign that two accounts are linked. There are cases where two accounts have different IPs yet are the same person, accounts have the same IP yet are different people, and accounts that are shared by multiple people.
The clan spying issue will be remedied soon enough; I had plans for a spying system sometime down the road (with a chance of being caught, or getting misinformation, etc) but the existing spying issue spoils that plan.
KepLast Edited: Jul 7, 2008, 7:21 pm |
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| Gryficus Posts: 239
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 121 years old
| Message #6286 Posted: Jul 7, 2008, 7:09 pm |
Even if the public notice wasn't surefire, I think it would give the players some ground to stand on when inviting/attacking/etc.
If you can disclose, what are the other methods of tracking multi accounts besides IP? |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #6292 Posted: Jul 7, 2008, 7:36 pm |
Slight miscommunication on my part - specifically I meant that the current or most recent IP is not the only thing I track, such as that which would be displayed in a list. I debated on going into more detail in the previous post, but I think it might be better to leave it vague since I've noticed some multi activity that makes it appear as if they're trying to confuse basic IP checks.
I hold no illusions that it's possible to stop all multi abuse entirely; the goal is just to make the abuses more of a hassle than it's worth.
Also, I should mention that the percentage of active multi accounts is quite low in Muelsfell. It's not widespread, but it's one that I want to keep from developing into a problem that would drive off new players.
Kep |
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| hydraxon Posts: 17
Location: Nournsland
Magus Age: 112 years old
| Message #6521 Posted: Jul 10, 2008, 5:25 am |
| Gryficus said:
Then we\\\'re just going to have spies from every clan in every other clan, going a long way to ruin clan warfare.
Here\\\'s an idea. Make it known who has the same IP (similar to Warcraft 3 banlist).
Add a section to the profile that says \\\"XXXX has the same IP as YYYYYY and ZZZZZZ\\\"
That would help eliminate spying AND give us an idea on who is using multi-accounts. Plus, then you leave the decisions up to the players, and don\\\'t have to hard code any solutions.
i can think of some slight issues with this for example: a clan who activly attack multi-accounters sees two people on the list with the same ip assumes that its one person with two accounts and everyone in the clan focuses on them when its for example roommates with the same ip or two people using america online and they just happened to be grouped.
i think if this is implemented refining the list to make it show only people who interact who have the same ip address and how often they interact is a good idea then its more refined and easier to tell whos multi-accounting and those who just happen to have matching ip addresses and just attacked the other person for one reason or another.Last Edited: Jul 10, 2008, 5:27 am |
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