| Author | Thread: Mandate of the Angelic Order | 1 | 2 | 3 | Page 4 | 5 |
| Kaelas Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 118 years old
Real Name: Barry
| Message #8037 Posted: Jul 24, 2008, 6:53 pm |
@ CC (and the rest of MAGIER)
We will not give you tribute. Ever. We will not follow your rules. We will not exile people for your gain.
Stop asking or demanding fulfillment of your petty desires. Whatever damage you can do is nothing compared to the pleasure of denying you victory.
EDIT: thought to include everyone, not just CC.Last Edited: Jul 24, 2008, 7:03 pm |
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CaduceusPosts: 185 Location: Last Alvia Dawning Magus Age: 126 years old Clan: OTAKU2 Real Name: Paul
| Message #8038 Posted: Jul 24, 2008, 7:01 pm |
| Necaria said:
I'm a little surprised at you Caduceus. Sure it's not a huge sum(though for my clan it's quite a bit, nearly as much as it is for TOMU but with only 6 members), but that's hardly the point. You make it sound like making arbitrary demands seemingly just for the sake of making them is a perfectly normal thing.
This is a game based around political and military power, and golem-based PvP. Making arbitrary demands to stir up a ruckus in a game like this is, indeed, a perfectly normal thing.
Necaria said:
I suppose you wouldn't mind paying my clan a tax while you're at it? Since MAGIER is claiming your iron, maybe you could give us some stone, it's a little less valuable than iron, so instead of the 150k they get, maybe 200k? Seems fair.
Oh, my guild will never pay anything to anyone (see Rigby's post on page 2). My point was that it will likely be cheaper for smaller guilds to yield some iron than pay for repairs. I'm not making a judgment call about "fair" or "right or wrong", just saying how it is. Some guilds will need to make a choice if they'd rather pay some iron or log in to find their golems smashed and their workshops raided.
Ryphus said: CommComms said:
Regardless, the amount we're asking is a pittance, especially compared to the cost of our wrath. Oh, you mean the self respect you're demanding every other clan in the game hand over to you? Trust me, the degradation inherent in yielding to you is -far- costlier than any material cost of rebuilding what you raze. Those of us who've grown up and are out of the school yard know that lunch money is a pittance as well... but that doesn't mean we consider it acceptable for our children to yield to the bullies of their generation. The membership of each Clan gives their resources to the clan, for the clan's use and for the Clan's good, just as a parent gives his child lunch money for his child's use. It is an usurpation and a crime when another child comes along and seizes that money, or demands it with implicit or explicit threat, and the parent has every right to be incensed.
"Degradation"? It's somehow less degrading to get your golems smashed and workshop pillaged on a daily basis? Good man. Fight the good fight.
However, please try to keep things in perspective when making your arguments. Chewing the scenery and using inapplicable metaphors will only cause people to dismiss your argument out of hand.
This is a PvP-based game. It revolves around combat. This isn't some real-life shakedown where a guy jumps out of an alley and demands your wallet-- you signed up to participate. So, you need to find a way to cope within the rules of the game.
Have your clan buy some tickets and opt out of PvP. It'll also give Arkham some pizza money.
Or, band together and stand up for yourselves. To use your schoolyard metaphor, get your son to gather his friends and beat the bully to death with lead pipes. |
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NecariaPosts: 505 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 115 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #8042 Posted: Jul 24, 2008, 7:13 pm |
Just to be clear, my "seems fair" comment was not about how fair demanding resources is, it was that the increase in stone compared to iron seemed a reasonable amount.
Anyway yes, it is PvP, but while I occasionally enjoy PvP in games, extortionist tactics have always made a game quite a lot less enjoyable to me, regardless of if it affected me or not.
As for cheaper to pay if you're small, I disagree. It would be cheaper to just to stick out a fleshy or something and spend your resources frequently. A loss of a flesh golem is pretty minor, plus if it isn't totally destroyed you can sell it(assuming you have a permit) and the resource losses shouldn't be much more than paying, plus you get xp out of the deal, which is nice and ought to balance that out.
*edited for errors*Last Edited: Jul 24, 2008, 7:15 pm |
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| Ryphus Posts: 7
Location: Shilo Steppe
Magus Age: 112 years old
| Message #8044 Posted: Jul 24, 2008, 7:25 pm |
| Caduceus said:
This is a PvP-based game. It revolves around combat. This isn't some real-life shakedown where a guy jumps out of an alley and demands your wallet-- you signed up to participate. So, you need to find a way to cope within the rules of the game.
My standing response in a real life shakedown is to play cool and see if I get an opportunity to go for my knife. I agree that me going for a knife to stab the offending players, even where it possible, would be out of order. Ergo, I am coping within the rules of the game, and am scaling my response for context.
I do, however, disagree with the notion that just because PVP is possible, I must be here for it, and I must enjoy it. |
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NanashiPosts: 1115 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #8046 Posted: Jul 24, 2008, 7:31 pm |
If you wish to wage war, then pick up your weapons, send forth your soldiers and wage war. Do not mask it with conceits of nobility or honor or righteousness, there is no justification for either side of a battle. "Good" and "evil" are decided by the historian scribe hired by the winners of a battle.
-Nameless |
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CaduceusPosts: 185 Location: Last Alvia Dawning Magus Age: 126 years old Clan: OTAKU2 Real Name: Paul
| Message #8053 Posted: Jul 24, 2008, 7:47 pm |
| Ryphus said:
My standing response in a real life shakedown is to play cool and see if I get an opportunity to go for my knife. I agree that me going for a knife to stab the offending players, even where it possible, would be out of order. Ergo, I am coping within the rules of the game, and am scaling my response for context.
I do, however, disagree with the notion that just because PVP is possible, I must be here for it, and I must enjoy it.
Then get your game-knife out and get to shivvin'!
I didn't say you must enjoy it or be here for it, I'm saying that you are playing under the rules of the game, which include PvP. If you loathe PvP, buy a few tickets and opt out. It's an option. |
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| Ryphus Posts: 7
Location: Shilo Steppe
Magus Age: 112 years old
| Message #8055 Posted: Jul 24, 2008, 7:50 pm |
Trust me, Caduceus, I'm working on it. Unfortunately at this point, I don't have to so much 'get' my game knife as 'invent' it.
R&D is getting back to me on that. |
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DilvishPosts: 219 Location: Feldspar Magus Age: 133 years old Clan: OTAKU2 Real Name: Jeff
| Message #8114 Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 2:54 am |
| Poseidon said:
There's more to life than numbers.
Some things you just cant put a price tag on.
For everything else, there's Mastercard.
As far as tithing resources go, I've got no issues giving up some iron. Of course, it would be in the form of golems marching to war. I guess I should get back to stoking the forges then.
<whistles merrily>
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| Kaelas Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 118 years old
Real Name: Barry
| Message #8160 Posted: Jul 25, 2008, 5:07 pm |
| Anyone following this Thread might be interested in the Thread: Declaration of Independence in this very forum section. Good read, very informative. |
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NanashiPosts: 1115 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #9064 Posted: Aug 1, 2008, 1:22 am |
hehehe [www.youtube.com/watch]
cake or death? [www.youtube.com/watch]Last Edited: Aug 1, 2008, 1:28 am |
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laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 113 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #9393 Posted: Aug 4, 2008, 8:08 pm |
| So, has the "angelic" order learned its lesson yet? |
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| CommComms Posts: 392
Location: Daylsfeld
Magus Age: 121 years old
| Message #9430 Posted: Aug 4, 2008, 11:21 pm |
| I've certainly learned not to put up any sort of reasonable arguments or counterpoints to the vast plethora of falsehoods, fabrications, claims, and accusations the majority of y'all make. I knew this was the internet, but I still expected people to use some slight degree of coherency and logic in their posts. Lesson learned, no more expectations! |
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| FatherCoyne Posts: 332
Location: Mallow
Magus Age: 116 years old
Real Name: Kevin Coyne
Email: KCoyne@umail.ucsb.edu
| Message #9439 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 12:03 am |
Someone was teaching? O_o
Sorry, I must have been distracted.
*goes back to pasting parchment strips to flesh golems* |
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| Squeezepenny Posts: 93
Location: Feldspar
Magus Age: 121 years old
| Message #9453 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 2:09 am |
| Not yet, lad. None so blind as those who will not see, what? |
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| Zivdel Posts: 185
Location: Arzenbourg
Magus Age: 120 years old
| Message #9496 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 4:19 pm |
| CommComms said:
I've certainly learned not to put up any sort of reasonable arguments or counterpoints to the vast plethora of falsehoods, fabrications, claims, and accusations the majority of y'all make. I knew this was the internet, but I still expected people to use some slight degree of coherency and logic in their posts. Lesson learned, no more expectations!
I'm sorry... at what point has any church any where ever used reasonable arguments and counterpoints... those things require cold, hard, unabashed logic devoid of such things as faith or belief. it is in this scenario which right and wrong come down to morality.
Your "argument" is that you have the right to take what is ours because some divinity says you have the right to, we i logically deny that divine force exists and thus invalidates your claim. there now its a stalemate... but that is not good enough, now the one with the mandate takes the mantle upon himself to crusade in the name of righteousness and destroy the non-believers... ok, well as i have already denied your deity, this is now from my perspective extortion, assault, and maybe attempted murder.
Don't be getting on your high horse about us not lying down to take it. |
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| Poseidon Posts: 241
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 113 years old
Real Name: Jack Website: Click HereEmail: kingclown00@hotmail.com | Message #9501 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 5:15 pm |
| Zivdel said:
Don't be getting on your high horse about us not lying down to take it.
http://n3t.net/humor/motivation/high_horse.jpg
Lol. |
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| FatherCoyne Posts: 332
Location: Mallow
Magus Age: 116 years old
Real Name: Kevin Coyne
Email: KCoyne@umail.ucsb.edu
| Message #9508 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 5:28 pm |
| Zivdel said:
I'm sorry... at what point has any church any where ever used reasonable arguments and counterpoints... Most of the time, until very recently in history. (Damn you Fundamentalists! >_< Why have you lowered the bar so?)Your "argument" is that you have the right to take what is ours because some divinity says you have the right to, we i logically deny that divine force exists and thus invalidates your claim. That's actually the first time anybody's gone out and said that. In any case, denial doesn't invalidate the claim, it just denies it. there now its a stalemate... but that is not good enough, now the one with the mandate takes the mantle upon himself to crusade in the name of righteousness and destroy the non-believers... Actually, we never did that. You guys just all kinda said we were going to do that. We stopped at the previous step. ok, well as i have already denied your deity, this is now from my perspective extortion, assault, and maybe attempted murder. Good, heavens. :o Murder? You do wax dramatical, don't you?Don't be getting on your high horse about us not lying down to take it. Didn't do that either. We've just been sitting back watching the high horse parade about you all not taking it. ^_^
Edit: I said actually too many times! D:Last Edited: Aug 5, 2008, 5:43 pm |
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| CommComms Posts: 392
Location: Daylsfeld
Magus Age: 121 years old
| Message #9509 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 5:39 pm |
| Ok, well clearly FatherCoyne hasn't learned not to make those reasonable arguments and counterpoints I mentioned. |
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| ShaoKahn Posts: 99
Location: Jaaron
Magus Age: 141 years old
Real Name: Craig
Email: craigbrett17@aol.com
| Message #9513 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 6:20 pm |
Double negative there, oh dear.
Oh wells... I'm not experienced enough to fight on... so it seems. |
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| FatherCoyne Posts: 332
Location: Mallow
Magus Age: 116 years old
Real Name: Kevin Coyne
Email: KCoyne@umail.ucsb.edu
| Message #9528 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 9:22 pm |
| ShaoKahn said:
Double negative there, oh dear.
Oh wells... I'm not experienced enough to fight on... so it seems. But the phraze "hasn't learned not to" has no negative free grammatic equivalent!
:O
What has the trope of litotes ever done to you?Last Edited: Aug 5, 2008, 9:28 pm |
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NanashiPosts: 1115 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #9530 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 9:59 pm |
"...hasn't learned to make unreasonable..."
*shuffles back to his library* |
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| CommComms Posts: 392
Location: Daylsfeld
Magus Age: 121 years old
| Message #9533 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 10:30 pm |
ShaoKahn, you seem to have managed to decipher my post and understand exactly what I was saying. Oh dear.Last Edited: Aug 5, 2008, 11:00 pm |
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NanashiPosts: 1115 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #9539 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 11:02 pm |
| Nanashi accidently dropped an unabridged dictionary from the top of a ladder, hitting CommComms over the head. "Fine. 'FatherCoyne has learned to make reasonable arguments and counterpoints' as you mentioned. Is that better?" he asked as he climbed down. [[please do not test my grasp of english, one way or another you will regret it]] |
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| FatherCoyne Posts: 332
Location: Mallow
Magus Age: 116 years old
Real Name: Kevin Coyne
Email: KCoyne@umail.ucsb.edu
| Message #9546 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 11:44 pm |
| Nanashi said:
Nanashi accidently dropped an unabridged dictionary from the top of a ladder, hitting CommComms over the head. "Fine. 'FatherCoyne has learned to make reasonable arguments and counterpoints' as you mentioned. Is that better?" he asked as he climbed down. [[please do not test my grasp of english, one way or another you will regret it]] I do regret it. D: That is so wrong, I hurt!
O_O You do know there's a difference between painting something white, and not painting something black, right? |
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| Sconibulus Posts: 664
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #9547 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 11:53 pm |
He has failed to learn that reasonable arguments and counterpoints are futile?
I dunno, I think that the only time reasonable arguments are ever futile is when you are dealing with fools or fundies, of which I certainly am neither, so if your arguments are in fact futile perhaps they are not as reasonable as you believe. |
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