| Author | Thread: Inconsistent Damage Against Walls [LOCKED] |
| Sconibulus Posts: 664
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #9218 Posted: Aug 3, 2008, 3:38 am |
My clan acquired a trebuchet, which I've so far used on two seperate opponents, both of them had level 3 walls, the first opponent's wall took either 5 or 8 damage, the second opponent's wall, when attacking with the exact same golem, with the exact same equipment, instead was dealing 10,11,20, or 2 for 28 damage.
A possible explanation for this could be a difference in golems, as if the armour rating of the golem is also used in determining damage dealt to the wall, which doesn't make much sense. |
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| FatherCoyne Posts: 332
Location: Mallow
Magus Age: 116 years old
Real Name: Kevin Coyne
Email: KCoyne@umail.ucsb.edu
| Message #9221 Posted: Aug 3, 2008, 4:09 am |
As little sense as it makes, it's the case. ^^ The walls only take damage that would have hit the golem (And damage that hits the golem anyway. ^^;;).
It's a little silly, but that's the way things are. |
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| Sconibulus Posts: 664
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #9222 Posted: Aug 3, 2008, 4:16 am |
| That makes a very small, but existent amount of sense for melee, as the opponent can interpose, but the trebuchet absolutely cannot hit a golem, so the explanation does not apply. |
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| FatherCoyne Posts: 332
Location: Mallow
Magus Age: 116 years old
Real Name: Kevin Coyne
Email: KCoyne@umail.ucsb.edu
| Message #9226 Posted: Aug 3, 2008, 4:39 am |
Well, the trebuchet isn't a weapon, so it doesn't really hit anything.
It says "The wall was hit with the shoulder-mounted trebuchet N times(X dmg)", but all the "with the shoulder-mounted trebuchet" part means is that you got a damage multiplier for having it equipped.
If the sense you were talking about was "Real" sense, not mechanics, I wouldn't bother. The whole thing's an abstraction... and a pretty abstract one at that.Last Edited: Aug 3, 2008, 4:42 am |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #9431 Posted: Aug 4, 2008, 11:23 pm |
So putting armor on my golem protects my wall?
That's just silly XD |
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| StarSecrets Posts: 146
Location: Ogsden
Magus Age: 112 years old
| Message #9482 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 11:21 am |
| No, the armor is Magical Teleporting Armor(tm). It covers whichever thing needs protecting at that instant! I'm not sure how the armor manages to fit the wall though... Hmm... ;) |
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HalfteaPosts: 1307 Location: Darghelm Magus Age: 132 years old Clan: ADV | Message #9485 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 12:24 pm |
Remember your time as an apprentice? Because of the inate magical elasticity of the armor of course!
After all, that's why the same-sized piece fits both the Golem Chest AND a Golem hand. It's the magical elasticity that does it. *nods sagely*
* Moves off and grumbles to self: Young apprentices these days, tell 'em something and it just goes on out the other ear. Gotta make sure this current crop remembers about the elasticity...
XD |
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| Tariana Posts: 162
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 112 years old
| Message #9498 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 5:03 pm |
| Yamikuronue said:
So putting armor on my golem protects my wall?
That's just silly XD
No sillier than golems that can understand to go to a place, find a particular kind of monster, fight it, and return with the loot BUT can't figure out to crawl out of the basement to fight any intruders in the workshop. :)
Maybe the golem dangles bits of its armor over the top of the wall to help protect it? |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #9520 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 7:13 pm |
I prefer to think of it as the wall suddenly jumping out of a nearby bush and shouting "AHAH!" everytime an attacker takes a swing. :D
Kep |
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| Sconibulus Posts: 664
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 116 years old
| Message #9529 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 9:23 pm |
so I'm originally firing the trebuchet at the golem?
And how does the wall jumping out make it take damage as if it had the golems armour?
Why not just give walls standardized resistances, maybe double that of a stone golem, that'd probably be pretty reasonable. |
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NanashiPosts: 1115 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #9531 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 10:05 pm |
another option would be for the wall to subract a certain amount of damage from each attack. For instance, an attack does 8 points of damage, but the wall subtracts 6 points. So the wall takes 6 points of damage and the defender takes the remaining 2. I kinda thought this was how the wall was supposed to work anyway.
Of course this would essentially negate flesh attackers unless you dump a whole lot of exp into them. |
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NecariaPosts: 505 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 115 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #9535 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 10:34 pm |
| That is how barricades work, the amount it blocks depends on the barricade's level. When you attack someone you can see how much it blocks in the little list of conditions at the top. Can also click the barricade link in your workshop to see how much yours absorbs. |
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NanashiPosts: 1115 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #9541 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 11:13 pm |
so if the wall takes a certain amount of damage per hit...maybe the issue is inn the sequence of calculating the damage. I have a feeling that the damage is being calculated first between the attacker's strength and the guard's defense, and then the wall is subtracting an amount of damage from each hit. What about if you switched the order so that the wall took damage then whatever is remaining is calculated against the guard's defense. It would clear up the issue of golem armor affecting damage to the wall.
Now if only the defender would stay behind the wall... |
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NecariaPosts: 505 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 115 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #9543 Posted: Aug 5, 2008, 11:19 pm |
| It would indeed, though taking the full damage walls would drop very quickly indeed, so if that happened it would need some kind of damage reduction of it's own. |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 124 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #9554 Posted: Aug 6, 2008, 12:17 am |
| And how does the wall jumping out make it take damage as if it had the golems armour?
...the jumping wall thing was a joke. :D
Combat is an abstraction. Some(many?) parts are written simply for balance or ease of gameplay rather than suspension of disbelief.
The only way the current mechanics make logical roleplay sense is if the wall was a flying, swirling mass of shields that spun around the defending golem.
Hm, actually that'd be a rather intriguing change...
Kep |
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NanashiPosts: 1115 Location: Asylum Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OTAKU | Message #9556 Posted: Aug 6, 2008, 12:27 am |
| Mage shields? It would sort of fit, depending on how we will be purchasing future spells. Also I have read a few stories where a person controlled a wall of shields. (granted almost all that I can think of are manga...) And it would require preparation and resources to set it to a place rather than have a magus specifically focus on its maintenance |
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| Poseidon Posts: 241
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 113 years old
Real Name: Jack Website: Click HereEmail: kingclown00@hotmail.com | Message #9560 Posted: Aug 6, 2008, 12:41 am |
I still don't think a bone golem should miss a stationary(?) wall 12/13 shots a round.
Walls taking evasion percentages from golems = WTF moving wall. I could kind of see it taking armor percentages, as the golem is presumably taking SOME of the hits, but the resists and wall together are enough to negate some attacks. |
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| Elsworth Posts: 93
Location: Fellin
Magus Age: 111 years old
| Message #9566 Posted: Aug 6, 2008, 12:57 am |
But your golem is not attacking the wall... It's attacking the other golem, hopefully... And sometimes it missed the other golem completely and sometimes the wall gets in the way of an attack (so you damage the wall) and sometimes the other golem diverts the attack/the attack bounces off it's armour and strikes the wall (damaging the golem and the wall a bit)...
At least three different ways each attack turns out... It's not exact, but it works for me...
E |
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PeggaPosts: 702 Location: Jaaron Magus Age: 122 years old Clan: ADV | Message #9777 Posted: Aug 8, 2008, 3:59 am |
| Arkham said:
The only way the current mechanics make logical roleplay sense is if the wall was a flying, swirling mass of shields that spun around the defending golem. I'm going to go ahead and second that idea. When the spell system goes online, just switch "wall" for "ethereal workshop shield". Magi come out of vocational school knowing how to do that, and all it takes is building the proper apparatus (thus the resources) placing it atop the workshop, and infusing it with the same type of magic that runs golems.
Which leads to another interesting twist, that could be incorporated later of course, is partially treating the EWS as a stationary golem. Its fine as built, but add sets of eyes to it for a bit more bonus (maybe a max of four, one for each side, assuming a rectangle) with a power source or two boosting the range it can protect.
The higher level one makes the EWS/wall/whatever, it protects better regardless of what objects are added. |
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