| Author | Thread: Defenseless Workshops | 1 | 2 | Page 3 | 4 | 5 |
| Nageya Posts: 86
Location: Asylum
Magus Age: 118 years old
| Message #10377 Posted: Aug 17, 2008, 9:16 pm |
| okay the actual results of this is kind of ridicules people who used to put up personal golems now just put out powered chests and use a clan golem as a guard becouse it's safer to do that since no matter what happens they won't lose exp. |
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NecariaPosts: 505 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 122 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #10378 Posted: Aug 17, 2008, 9:23 pm |
| I totally called that happening, hehe. Listed some possible solutions to it further back in this thread. But ah well. |
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| Gryficus Posts: 239
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 127 years old
| Message #10397 Posted: Aug 18, 2008, 7:57 am |
I agree..this needs to be fixed.
Obvious solution? Don't let people put incomplete golems outside their workshop.
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| deathpunk Posts: 154
Location: Nournsland
Magus Age: 124 years old
| Message #10403 Posted: Aug 18, 2008, 1:30 pm |
| we could just be allowed to destroy incapacitated golems, or just steal their items(as was sugested in another thread) since a golem without a power source doesn't stop your workshop from being undefended |
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| Kaelas Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 124 years old
Real Name: Barry
| Message #10408 Posted: Aug 18, 2008, 4:36 pm |
I'd prefer getting a third option when attacking.
Raid: if you win, you loot the workshop.
Destroy: if you win, you destroy the wall or other structure.
Attack: if you win, you engage the golem for another five rounds (if the golem is already disabled, then you skip to the bonus rounds).
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NecariaPosts: 505 Location: Rildesjan Magus Age: 122 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #10411 Posted: Aug 18, 2008, 5:18 pm |
My vote(as seen earlier in the thread) is for not being able to put out disabled golems. If you can just destroy the golems it'll probably go back to no guard, and the point of this penalty as I understand it is to encourage people to have a guard out. If it can be totally destroyed then it's rather too expensive to leave guards out(aside from a throw away flesh or the like to make you waste a bit of motivation) and the same is true to a lesser extent if you can loot them(probably see a lot of strips, again to make you waste a bit motivation). This is because they'd lose xp/score either way, but would lose golem/items as well if they fielded them.
Not being able to put out disabled golems would make them either fix/make a golem, not be able to use motivation(leaving the disabled golem out, so wouldn't be able to attack anything), or leave no golem out and be vulnerable to xp/score loss. I would also suggest having no hands to count as disabled for the purpose of fielding the golem if this is implemented, but that's kind of off topic. |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 130 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #10466 Posted: Aug 19, 2008, 3:02 pm |
I'll see if I can add something that will prevent moving disabled golems outside. This shouldn't affect situations where a golem becomes disabled due to combat (it'll stay outside), but should stop folks from putting torsos outside.
Kep |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 130 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #10467 Posted: Aug 19, 2008, 3:47 pm |
I've added a couple of basic checks for important parts like a pelvis, abdomen, legs, etc before allowing someone to move a golem outside. Won't address the problem 100%, but should help.
Kep |
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| FatherCoyne Posts: 332
Location: Mallow
Magus Age: 123 years old
Real Name: Kevin Coyne
Email: KCoyne@umail.ucsb.edu
| Message #10479 Posted: Aug 19, 2008, 7:55 pm |
| Do you really need them to have BOTH legs? Even when I wasn't using bargain fleshy defenses, I still wouldn't build both legs of my defenders a lot of the time. They have some... advantageous qualities, and I think you're stifling design creativity with that. |
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laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #10484 Posted: Aug 19, 2008, 8:42 pm |
| Advantageous...Like it's funny watching them try to hop around after the other golem in combat? |
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| deathpunk Posts: 154
Location: Nournsland
Magus Age: 124 years old
| Message #10570 Posted: Aug 21, 2008, 1:30 am |
ok this doesn't work how we've been told it should. I will often attack people with no golem out at all, let me repeat, nothing at all, not a torso, not a full golem, not even a clan golem; despite this I received no experience and didn't lose any either. I know I'm not remembering this wrong because it just happened against SupremeMagister
tl;dr this is either not working or you are not telling us about something |
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| Ezekiah Posts: 128
Location: Last Alvia Dawning
Magus Age: 128 years old
| Message #10576 Posted: Aug 21, 2008, 4:47 am |
| I know I'm not remembering this wrong because it just happened against SupremeMagister. -deathpunk
I have a post in the bug forum about that very thing, but I haven't gotten any response yet.
LINK: http://www.muelsfell.com/world/map_community.php?msg=9879 |
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| Panacea Posts: 167
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 123 years old
| Message #10583 Posted: Aug 21, 2008, 8:41 am |
I also posted about this problem, as I attacked several empty workshops with no xp change, but several of those players are on vacation now. Maybe I had attacked them during their vacation although I don't even know if that is possible.
Edit: Nope, just attacked Hypatia's workshop which only has a legless clan golem guarding it and there was no xp drain. Which is annoying because magier has been draining my xp when my workshop was guarded in the same way... damn those jobs sometimes.
Yet another edit: Just had a thought, maybe expand the use of the destroy feature to also attack any disabled golem in front of the workshop. Introduce a modest penalty (-3xp maybe) so that people don't abuse it. It might help combat the new strategy of leaving out golems with flesh and/or damaged legs, which frankly is quite frustrating when they've just been xp draining you.Last Edited: Aug 21, 2008, 9:05 am |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 130 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #10593 Posted: Aug 21, 2008, 3:42 pm |
I need more info, please.
If you have "reports when attacking" turned on, leave it on and don't delete the report (so I can review it).
Vacation status should have nothing to do with it; combat itself will stop if you try to attack someone who's inactive.
Are you able to trigger the XP drain on anyone at all? Does it affect just specific people? Do they have clan golems up (ineffective or otherwise)?
Kep |
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| Ezekiah Posts: 128
Location: Last Alvia Dawning
Magus Age: 128 years old
| Message #10604 Posted: Aug 21, 2008, 7:38 pm |
I can't get the xp drain to work on anyone now. It used to work for me but I just tried attacking three different people that have no golems at all outside and got not xp (and they didn't lose any). The two who aren't SupremeMagister are below:
http://www.muelsfell.com/profile.php?p=1469
http://www.muelsfell.com/profile.php?p=958
EDIT: The no xp-loss issue is fixed (for me anyway). Thanks.Last Edited: Aug 22, 2008, 5:43 am |
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[ADMIN] ArkhamPosts: 902 Location: Mallow Magus Age: 130 years old Clan: AGOMC | Message #10606 Posted: Aug 21, 2008, 9:57 pm |
I made a tweak. Let me know if it still does it, and I'll dig a little further.
Magi that are less than 30 days old do not trigger the XP penalty; this was something I did forget to mention. Sorry about that.
Kep |
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| Kaelas Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 124 years old
Real Name: Barry
| Message #10639 Posted: Aug 22, 2008, 6:41 pm |
| Getting back to the topic of people leaving disabled golems out, I have another idea. Limit the "attack disabled golem" option to only be available a certain number of times per hour (like when you do missions for the Dimitrian Republican Guard). Something along the line of a Magus' disabled golem could only be attacked (normal ten rounds of combat) an number of time equal to half it's level. So a disabled fleshie1 could be attacked once per hour whereas a Iron5 could be attacks while disabled 5 times every hour(11/2=5.5, round down). Biggest problem with this I could see is Clan teamwork allowing for massive group attacks. Possible solution for this is to have the limit on the defending Magus, not the attackers. So the Iron5 could get attacked 5 times, whether that's five times by one Magus or once by five Magi. |
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| Yamikuronue Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 122 years old
| Message #10643 Posted: Aug 22, 2008, 8:20 pm |
| That doesn't make any in-game sense. I prefer solutions to make sense in-game rather than feeling like a heavy-handed smackdown. |
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| Jilianna Posts: 5
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 123 years old
| Message #15372 Posted: Oct 23, 2008, 1:22 pm |
I've run into problems like this in other games. Some players who are more experienced or in a bigger clan will decide that all the players around then exist only to supply them with resources. So the newer or smaller players get raided into the group. If that happens here I will quite in a heartbeat.
I quite other games because of the "haha your're now my b*tch" attitude. It could be especially bad in this game because there is no reset. How I am supposed to defend myself from a level 40 player with a level 5 golem?
I finally got around to building a golem other than the starting one. The night I had it out there I got raided 6 times by a guy with a level 2 wood golem. He destroyed the arms and legs, and the armor on them, and stole my resources. If I had lost exp too because he kept raiding me it would have made the game not worth playing. |
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laidanPosts: 1158 Location: Mottonsborough Magus Age: 120 years old Clan: OASIS | Message #15390 Posted: Oct 23, 2008, 3:50 pm |
| I would suggest joining a clan, like maybe OASIS, though there are probably others that are almost as good, to help deter attacks like the one you suffered, as well as helping out in other ways. If clans aren't for you, then the Missions for Dimitria (jobs page) can help prevent repeat attacks of that manner. |
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| DemonDurai Posts: 92
Location: Jaaron
Magus Age: 118 years old
| Message #17765 Posted: Nov 14, 2008, 1:41 pm |
I think a solution would be that "if your Golem gets destroy outside, there is not xp losses for X amount of time while you are offline" This X amount of time would be negated if you log in the game after your golem is destroy during the "X" amount of time.
For players level 5 or below there is no XP loss unless they are "X" amount of active days old.
Just an idea (; |
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| Sonya Posts: 5
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 117 years old
Real Name: Sonya
Email: soniathebabe@hotmail.com
| Message #18219 Posted: Nov 22, 2008, 12:19 am |
| Arkham said:
I've put in a small change to defenseless workshops:
If a workshop is defenseless -- that is, no golem outside and no clan golem guarding that would prevent an attacker from easily breaking down the door and looting/destroying -- the defender will now take a small XP and score penalty for each attacker that gets through without a fight.
This was put in specifically to discourage folks from leaving no guards out.
As always, I'm monitoring and will make tweaks as appropriate if this ends up being too harsh (or not harsh enough) of a change. :)
Kep
Thats not fair...... i leave my golem in the night and when i wake up it have been attacked by like 4 or 5 people. no ti only lose the defending golem but also get my Workshop raided and in the end....i lose points and exp?
i have to create a new golem daily.... |
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| CommComms Posts: 392
Location: Daylsfeld
Magus Age: 127 years old
| Message #18228 Posted: Nov 22, 2008, 12:48 am |
Solutions:
Join a clan.
Put out a stronger guardian golem.
Put out a breakable golem that's built to get disabled. You'll still get raided, but not lose exp. I use a level 3 clay with level 1 flesh abs and legs for this.
Don't put out any golem, most people attack only to get xp/dropped items.
Ask the people attacking to stop.
Get premium tickets to get no-pvp time.
Get premium tickets and move your workshop across the map.
Don't leave large amounts/any secondary resources or iron when you go to sleep. If you don't have anything to take most people won't spend the motivation to try taking stuff.
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| Rolund Posts: 26
Location: Last Alvia Dawning
Magus Age: 132 years old
| Message #20077 Posted: Dec 15, 2008, 5:21 am |
I've skimmed over the other posts so I'm sorry if I mention something someone else has already covered. Also I'll try not to whine about things. Figure I'll mostly focus on the previous post as it has easy to address points.
Is it really better to join a clan, unless it's a larger clan that is. If you're solo you can do stuff for the guards which seems to better limit attacks on your workshop. I've had a couple different people attack 5 or so times in a row, usually they stop after killing both my guardian and the clan golem assigned to my workshop. This of course equals a totally destroyed wall.
Putting out a stronger guardian doesn't really help. The weaker golem is used to spam attack the workshop until the stronger golem is worn down and destroyed. Giving the attacker a massive reward, usually 9xp per attack.
Putting out a breakable golem... isn't this just a technical fix that's against the spirit of the whole punish people for putting out a shell as a defender?
Don't put defender out. I've pretty much had to go with this one it seems as putting a defender draws more attacks. I'm worried about the people who'd attack just cause it would penalize the other person.
Asking the attacker to stop. There's a chance that would work. Though in many ways people here are just a step above anon status and I'm sure we all have an idea what an anon can do.
Getting premium tickets. Not for everyone as it almost always costs actual real world money.
Don't leave large amounts of resources when you go to sleep. This is a good idea for the most part. It's one I practice and I'm sure it is most likely helping, hard to measure attacks that aren't performed but still.
One thing I was going to suggest and directly related to this and a in general improvement is in regards to the hidden room.
I'll look for the thread where this suggestion should normally go but I think it's a valid spot currently in regards to the last suggestion.
Hidden Room. At it's maximum (level 10) it holds a mere 5000 units. What I suggest is that the room grow with your workshop, in a manner of speaking. In particular a 1% per level in relation to the size of your Storage Bin. At the max of each a level 10 hidden room would hold 40,000 units.
As the costs of things grow would not a magus improve this room. If you have a higher level workshop and your raided, you'd need to have more resources hidden to the side to more quickly recover.
Thank you for hearing me out. Thank you to CommComms for giving a good list of solutions, it helps to focus the debate. I hope to check back and see further progress made on this subject. |
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| Daryoon Posts: 174
Location: Last Alvia Dawning
Magus Age: 127 years old
| Message #20149 Posted: Dec 16, 2008, 3:43 am |
| If the people that are hitting you are from a clan, try diplomacy with the clan? Most big players have a clan they belong to; try asking the clan for a cease fire or some other agreement. It won't work with all clans but it never hurts to try. |
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