Please enter your user name and password: User Name: Password:
Register an account! · Forgot Password or Username?
What is Muelsfell? - Muelsfell: Rise of the Golems is a persistent browser-based game (PBBG) that revolves around the creation of magical golems by mages and magic users. Muelsfell is part combat, part roleplaying game, part resource management. Sign up for an account and give it a try -- for free!
Darghelm, in the Foothills of Ulvania
The hardy people of Ulvania value family bonds and friends over all else, so Darghelm has developed an extensive network of taverns, cozy inns, and messaging systems. They are not a cowardly nor xenophobic people and so allow people from all over the continent to use their taverns and speakeasy establishments.
You can read but will NOT be able to post until you login or Register
Index » Muelsfell Game Forum » Clan Discussions Muelsfell World v1.0 Forums
AuthorThread: All Clan PVP Summit
1 | Page 2 | 3
Cyrric
Cyrric's Avatar
Posts: 64
Location: Agoia Talia
Magus Age: 98 years old
Clan: ARROW
Real Name: Gimli, son of Gloin. 4 Realz
Message #42230 Posted: Feb 20, 2010, 4:06 pm

u dont want to fight buy tixs. this is arrows way controling the game using there multi accounts


Soon... Soon the world will be ours, my brothers in Evil. Soon, we shall control the whole game by clarifying PVP guidelines! The other clans will be so clarified that they won't be able to resist our clarification!
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!


Xorphitus said:

My few words on this issue:

PvP ettiquette sounds nice but never works. Sorry, this is my experience. So you have to organize retribution yourself. And hit back hard and painfully.

And my PvP approach is simple. You attack me, you get attacked back. You attack my clan mates, you get attacked. You destroy a golem of mine, expect to lose one or two as well. You use game balance screwing items and features to get an upper hand in PvP fights against me, expect me to hit back with other game mechanics (i.e. WoA). So ASTRO just uses another weapon against ARROW since those ranged weapons and winter slayblades are hard to battle against; perfectly in order for me, though I would personally only pick up the Senate weapon when really pissed off.

Draw your own conclusions,

Xorphitus


If your complaint is that you're having a hard time defending against ranged weapons and the Winter Slayblade, I highly suggest you continue to lobby for changes on the forums. Whining about imbalances through Writs is... well... kinda pathetic.

And perhaps you forget that the "Senate Weapon" is available to us as well...

Frivolous Writs will get you No Confidence votes which will really cause you problems in the future.
Last Edited: Feb 20, 2010, 4:18 pm
Shan
Shan's Avatar
Posts: 589
Location: Arzenbourg
Magus Age: 112 years old
Clan: ARROW
Message #42231 Posted: Feb 20, 2010, 4:09 pm
Guyver said:

... i would suggest that the attacked party notify is chief magistrate ' they may want to remove his clan golem to prevent dmg to it" and then have a short period of free hits on him. ...


I feel I should point out that it was exactly this suggestion which caused the last breakdown of negotiations between ARROW and TOMU.

And the question of enforcement really is difficult. If it's enforced through the might of other players, then a PvP player who breaks the guidelines still wins. Fighting is what they're looking for, and fighting would be what they get. But if force isn't used against those who violate the guidelines, there really aren't many other options. We can't exactly "ignore them until they go away," fine them, or imprison them.

It might take new game mechanics to ensure harmony between PvP and non-PvP players. Maybe something in a similar line as the Dmitrian guard - the ability to go on missions in exchange for short periods of NoPvP time. The cost would have to be fairly high in in-game resources, both to prevent abuse and to not compete with Ticket sales. Or some sort of impartial legal body, which would punish offenders, maybe with fines or "jail time."

We could even try setting up this enforcing body through inter-clan cooperation. Start a new clan, say "The Muelsfell Police Force" for now, which would be given the authority to freely investigate and enact retribution upon any who are accused of violating PvP guidelines. A sort of social contract, where everyone agrees to submit themselves to the rulings of some governing body, in order to ensure increased liberty and protections for everyone.
Of course, oversight to prevent corruption would be the tricky part.
Xorphitus
Xorphitus's Avatar
Posts: 182
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 107 years old
Clan: HAVOC
Message #42233 Posted: Feb 20, 2010, 4:34 pm
Cyrric said:

And perhaps you forget that the "Senate Weapon" is available to us as well...

Frivolous Writs will get you No Confidence votes which will really cause you problems in the future.


Well kid. You're behaviour creates more enemies than friends, right? So you will be on the receiving end by unfriendly behaviour, insults and threats since this is not only a PvP but a SOCIAL game and the Senate being another level of inter-clan interaction.

I am afraid, after reading you lame phrases I voted NO, I would like to switch to YES now.

And you should look into game balance. For sure, admins can drown players who pay in advantages, and you need to create some benefits for financing the game servers and game creators for their efforts. But those benefits should not utterly overreach the payers over the non-payers if you wish for a broad player base.

And I am glad there is no censorship here for critics. If you got an issue with my opinion, bring it on.
Cyrric
Cyrric's Avatar
Posts: 64
Location: Agoia Talia
Magus Age: 98 years old
Clan: ARROW
Real Name: Gimli, son of Gloin. 4 Realz
Message #42236 Posted: Feb 20, 2010, 5:59 pm
Xorphitus said:

Well kid. You're behaviour creates more enemies than friends, right? So you will be on the receiving end by unfriendly behaviour, insults and threats since this is not only a PvP but a SOCIAL game and the Senate being another level of inter-clan interaction.


ATTACK ME! I WANT PVP! As long as it's not five attacks in a row with the desire to raid, I don't care! You can't blame me for being angry when we get "censured" for playing the game the way it was meant to be played!

I give up. Pearls before swine.

I want to thank Laidan, Noreen, Gordon, and everyone else who responded. Diplomacy is difficult, and I've realized why I'll never be a politician.
Demoz
Demoz's Avatar
Posts: 43
Location: Ibonbourg
Magus Age: 93 years old
Clan: OASIS
Message #42238 Posted: Feb 20, 2010, 6:35 pm
its whatever, if ur profile reads no pvp not as a name look foward to be attacked. stop being cheap and buy tixs. Sharing is not Caring,and yea i attack who crosses my left. U can be lvl 4 or 100.... says to xorphitus (iam happy there getting woa)
Last Edited: Feb 20, 2010, 6:43 pm
Kenneth
Kenneth's Avatar
Posts: 133
Location: Asylum
Magus Age: 89 years old
Clan: OASIS
Website: Click Here
Message #42244 Posted: Feb 20, 2010, 7:39 pm
GordonIronsmith said:

Kenneth said:

And what really ticks me off in PVP is how some people just barg in with a huge iron 5 or something, and nearly demolish my guard, then go and hide behind their stupid granite wall.


I didn't hide behind my granite wall XD. I'll take my lumps as I give them out, tis only fair.


I didn't mean you, but I'm not going to point any fingers to the culprit because I happen to believe that snitches are "'lower than those kids who wet themselves in their jammies every night'"

And yes, I did just quote a book without citing it. My language arts teachers would be so proud...not.
GordonIronsmith
GordonIronsmith's Avatar
Posts: 434
Location: Broukendale
Magus Age: 98 years old
Message #42246 Posted: Feb 20, 2010, 11:07 pm
Kenneth said:

GordonIronsmith said:

Kenneth said:

And what really ticks me off in PVP is how some people just barg in with a huge iron 5 or something, and nearly demolish my guard, then go and hide behind their stupid granite wall.


I didn't hide behind my granite wall XD. I'll take my lumps as I give them out, tis only fair.


I didn't mean you, but I'm not going to point any fingers to the culprit because I happen to believe that snitches are "'lower than those kids who wet themselves in their jammies every night'"

And yes, I did just quote a book without citing it. My language arts teachers would be so proud...not.


I know your not talking about me I just like saying that XD.

Now Everyone is just bickering. This is not about whom hit whom, but rather so simple guide lines to make PvP more fun.

I'm talking guide lines some quick definitions so I know my Idea is getting across.

Guide Lines: a rule or set of rules giving guidance on how to behave in a situation.

Guidance: the act or function of guiding; direction.

These are not going to be set in stone NEVER, NEVER EVER. It's merely a system we can use to decide what is fair in PvP. (Some of the time)

It is not fair to say PvP is off limits, nor is it fair to attack some one 7 times and wreak their workshop.

Nothing about this is Black and white, Not a single thing. This is all about navigating the sea of gray, and if no one is willing to concede on points then nothing will come out of this

I don't want to pick on anyone, but Demoz you haven't added anything of real value, it's been a lot more like trolling if you ask me. If your going to keep shooting down Ideas then add some your self. I'm not asking much just some mild cooperation.

Either were going to be calm about this or we are going to flail our arms around blaming each other over silly things like we have been doing.

And not to change the discution, but rather lighten the mood...

THE TETRIS GOD! [www.youtube.com/watch]
Last Edited: Feb 20, 2010, 11:09 pm
Benta
Benta's Avatar
Posts: 211
Location: Asylum
Magus Age: 98 years old
Clan: ARROW
Message #42250 Posted: Feb 21, 2010, 2:08 am
**Disclamer All the words following are my opinion and not any indication of anything Arrow supports or does not support)**
Well then. How is us telling people who don't want to PVP to get the only SUREFIRE way to opt out (and thus avoid random attacks) any sort of indication of multi accounting?
If I was the PVP sort I'd be considering hitting you upsit the head for saying something so dumb.
Demoz said:

u dont want to fight buy tixs. this is arrows way controling the game using there multi accounts


::Edit:: Also Demoz, could you invest in a free spell checker? It takes 2 seconds to do and makes your posts infinitely more legible.

((I spelled infinitely wrong the first time but you'd never know. ;)
Last Edited: Feb 21, 2010, 2:13 am
Guyver
Guyver's Avatar
Posts: 125
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 89 years old
Clan: ARROW
Website: Click Here
Message #42255 Posted: Feb 21, 2010, 3:42 am
Shan said:

Guyver said:

... i would suggest that the attacked party notify is chief magistrate ' they may want to remove his clan golem to prevent dmg to it" and then have a short period of free hits on him. ...


I feel I should point out that it was exactly this suggestion which caused the last breakdown of negotiations between ARROW and TOMU.

And the question of enforcement really is difficult. If it's enforced through the might of other players, then a PvP player who breaks the guidelines still wins. Fighting is what they're looking for, and fighting would be what they get. But if force isn't used against those who violate the guidelines, there really aren't many other options. We can't exactly "ignore them until they go away," fine them, or imprison them.

It might take new game mechanics to ensure harmony between PvP and non-PvP players. Maybe something in a similar line as the Dmitrian guard - the ability to go on missions in exchange for short periods of NoPvP time. The cost would have to be fairly high in in-game resources, both to prevent abuse and to not compete with Ticket sales. Or some sort of impartial legal body, which would punish offenders, maybe with fines or "jail time."

We could even try setting up this enforcing body through inter-clan cooperation. Start a new clan, say "The Muelsfell Police Force" for now, which would be given the authority to freely investigate and enact retribution upon any who are accused of violating PvP guidelines. A sort of social contract, where everyone agrees to submit themselves to the rulings of some governing body, in order to ensure increased liberty and protections for everyone.
Of course, oversight to prevent corruption would be the tricky part.


no if the parties in question had screwed up they would have been hung out to dry, what caused that breakdown was the fact that you wanted to attack them for normal pvp, i know i was on that list and had attacked fewer than 12 times total ever, and only a certain troublemaker and the two friend he recruited to retaliate. if a copy of an attack report saying Guyver attack NOPVPsmith i would actually expect to be hung out to dry. tell me has 90% of your clans issues with us come from the troublemaker i mentioned?
Yamikuronue
Yamikuronue's Avatar
Posts: 1288
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 101 years old
Real Name: Bay
Website: Click Here
Message #42257 Posted: Feb 21, 2010, 5:04 am
I apologize for my not contributing to this thread sooner, and for my having skimmed many posts; I'm currently exhausted and sore from unfortunately-timed yet mandatory offline events, and am going to be similarly busy for the rest of the month.

However, I wished to pop in for a moment to clarify TOMU's policies, which have been in place since the MAGIER wars:

We don't particularly care what our members do in PvP, or what you do to them. It's a PvP game, and we don't want to tell people how to have fun. That said, what our officers are concerned with is clan property. Clan golems in the depot belong to the clan at large, and are managed by our officers, just like clan weapons and ammo belong to the clan at large. Our shadow guards were created by joint efforts of several players, and are repaired often using donations. That said, we are equally harsh on our own members who disrespect clan property as we are on other players who purposefully intend to break it - with the caveat that while being a disrespectful clan member is an internal matter subject to the disciplinary office, being a non-clannie who is destroying our property is usually considered a preliminary declaration of war.

In layman's terms: if someone breaks Sconi's doorguard, he probably deserved it, since we know he actively PvPs. If someone is aiming to hit his doorguard and hits the clan guard instead, usually at most we'll ask for a little money or adamantine to cover the repair costs and let it go, since accidents happen. If Sconi doesn't leave a doorguard out and gets his clan guard hit, he's in trouble and will be dealt with. If someone breaks Sconi's doorguard and then goes on to break his shadow guard, they've attacked the Clan itself in the only way the game currently supports, and we will retaliate as a Clan (though we usually send a message first to prevent misunderstandings).

If the code is ever released to attack a clan's HQ, we might loosen up on the shadow guards somewhat, since there'd be a way to actually attack the Clan itself and raid our coffers, meaning the majority of shadow guard hits are not attacks on the Clan but mistakes.


ETA: Barring the above outlined circumstance, I don't see our policy changing any time soon. However, we do have one additional policy I didn't mention - SMs of any clan are welcome and encouraged to deal with us directly regarding their own clan's treatment. No-PVP clans have, in the past, come to us informing us of their non-PVP status and asking for a compromise and, to the best of my knowledge, it's always been granted. Any clan member hitting a clan we've got an agreement with in violation of that agreement is to be severely punished. My philosophy is that a clan exists to protect its members; if a clan's members feel oppressed or burdened beyond their capacity to handle on their own it's up to them to report it to their SM and up to the SM to negotiate for their protection. Similarly, if a clan's members are violating our own rules, I make a point to inform their SM, and I would hope that other clans would do the same to us.

Basically, I see each clan as a sovereign entity - hence Sovereign Magistrate, the highest government officer of a self-governing entity. I have no power over another clan's members - but if that other clan refuses to discipline their own members to prevent conflict, then I take that as a sign that conflict is welcome and encouraged, and handle things accordingly. We allowed ARROW the benefit of the doubt that the problem would be handled once, and when it was not, requested the ability to handle the problem directly. When that, too, was denied us, we determined that they had no intention of avoiding conflict in the future and that they were toying with our clan, deliberately attacking and claiming "accident" to insult us and prevent the war they knew they'd lose.

...wait, aren't we supposed to be at war right now? I've had call in the remainder of last year's sick days to cover an unexpected illness and currently am using this year's vacation days to cover an expected busy spell. Come March, I'll re-evaluate the circumstances.
Last Edited: Feb 21, 2010, 5:12 am
Guyver
Guyver's Avatar
Posts: 125
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 89 years old
Clan: ARROW
Website: Click Here
Message #42259 Posted: Feb 21, 2010, 5:41 am
then why was my name on that list, i have never hit one of your clan golems... i have only had that happen once (against a poorer clan) and felt bad enough to offer and send him a significantly better golem than the one i hit (and nearly totaled) so tell me, if this was about clan property, why was it that my name was on the list for free retaliation. our breakdown was not from the revulsion of hanging someone out to dry though that was there it was from how wide the net was cast. to anyone else out there, if i ever screw up and hit your clan golem, send me a repair bill and i will send you double it.

and i repeat if there is anyone after the achievement and wants to trade fleshies msg me.
SkitzYie
SkitzYie's Avatar
Posts: 383
Location: Mottonsborough
Magus Age: 96 years old
Clan: ARROW
Message #42264 Posted: Feb 21, 2010, 1:37 pm
Guyver said:

then why was my name on that list, i have never hit one of your clan golems... i have only had that happen once (against a poorer clan) and felt bad enough to offer and send him a significantly better golem than the one i hit (and nearly totaled) so tell me, if this was about clan property, why was it that my name was on the list for free retaliation. our breakdown was not from the revulsion of hanging someone out to dry though that was there it was from how wide the net was cast. to anyone else out there, if i ever screw up and hit your clan golem, send me a repair bill and i will send you double it.

and i repeat if there is anyone after the achievement and wants to trade fleshies msg me.



Same message here. I was on the "free to hit list" TOMU sent us, yet I don't believe I have EVER hit a TOMU clan golem. My clan golem has been hit by TOMU though........


::Edit: Oh, and I don't think there is actually a war going on Yami. Every thing seems to have died down. from what I have seen there has been the normal back and forth individual skirmishes for points and fun but no clan level war.
Last Edited: Feb 21, 2010, 1:40 pm
MustafaDeValdemar
MustafaDeValdemar's Avatar
Posts: 235
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 105 years old
Clan: ARROW
Email: valdemar23@yahoo.com
Message #42286 Posted: Feb 22, 2010, 12:11 am
masterslug said:

I fully agree that there could be common rules/guidelines amongst those clans that wish to PVP. Players that do not want to PVP will need to either opt out or to accept attacks as part of the course or join a NON-PVP clan.

With a NON-PVP clan there are no chances of mistakes. Non of us wish to PVP other than by prior arrangement. Clan members who break this rule can and have been exiled.

But from a NON PVP clan perspective I do see a huge down side to these guidelines. For rules/guidelines to work there must be enforcement or at least political pressure to conform from the community at large. This is very open to abuse. I foresee that both players and clans that do not like the idea off NON-PVP clans, will use this to their advantage and attack NON-PVP clans like us freely, then claiming they are just following the guidelines. We will have little we can do to discourage them without breaking the guidelines and turning ourselves into the bad guys in the eyes of the community. All the old hands here know what happened to the last lot of bad guys, (fun times :) ).

This idea should not be used to force NON-PVP clans into PVP.


This notion that OTAKU is a "No-PvP" clan has always struck me as ridiculous. The only clan in the game that could be considered "No-PvP" is TATERU. They don't want to PvP, so all the clan members purchased the "No-PvP" option with Premium Tickets.

OTAKU is NOT a "No-PvP" clan - there is no such thing. You merely bully all the other players in the game by saying "don't attack our guys, or our enforcers will pound you." This not only contravenes the spirit of the game, but also the letter (as Cyrric pointed out in the initial post):

Arkham said:

Muelsfell was and is designed with the expectation that players will engage in PvP at least occasionally.


Click here [www.muelsfell.com/world/map_community.php] to see the full post.

Unless and until a magus purchases "No-PvP" status from the Premium page, they are subject to the PvP rules built into the game.

(/rant)
-----

To be honest, I can't understand why people are so against PvP, anyway. The absolute worst that can happen to defending magi with the proposed PvP guidelines is that their defending golem is destroyed. Since the proposed guidelines prohibit intentionally attacking clan golems and raiding, what's the harm?

If you keep your wall at 4-5, and put a lvl 2 Bone or Wood golem out with cheap eyes, the minimal score and XP gain for an attacker is enough to discourage most players. If you can make (or trade for) a high-level defender, go ahead and put it out there. The repair costs aren't really that high, and I have to say that in my experience, there are very few players who don't respond favorably when asked nicely to stop attacking. I've had magi ask me to stop attacking them, and I've done so. I've also asked magi to stop attacking me, and they have done so as well. Common courtesy in Muelsfell is not dead, despite what Aonghus might think.

Ask your clan for help - if any of my clan-mates want a lvl 5 addy golem defender, it's theirs for the asking. If your clan isn't that generous, find another clan!

In closing, I strongly support the general adoption of these PvP guidelines, and already abide by them in my PvP activities. If we can all agree to these rules, nobody will need to be afraid of PvP - even OTAKU.

Vaya con Queso,
:), MdV
Kenneth
Kenneth's Avatar
Posts: 133
Location: Asylum
Magus Age: 89 years old
Clan: OASIS
Website: Click Here
Message #42288 Posted: Feb 22, 2010, 1:18 am
(upside down ?)vaya con queso? Go with cheese? what's that supposed to mean?
Kaelas
Kaelas's Avatar
Posts: 1052
Location: Darghelm
Magus Age: 103 years old
Real Name: Barry
Message #42294 Posted: Feb 22, 2010, 5:47 am
::Edit: Oh, and I don't think there is actually a war going on Yami. Every thing seems to have died down. from what I have seen there has been the normal back and forth individual skirmishes for points and fun but no clan level war.


Yeah, pretty much. Honestly, keeping up War levels of PvP is too much work for anything less than MAGIER War: round two.
-----

As for the actual PvP issue at hand, Yamiko pretty much summed up ToMU's policy. Simply put, we can't force anyone to follow the rules we do. But we can salt the earth in front of the workshop of any Magus that gets our ire up. Same as OTAKU- whom we've accepted as non-PvP from the start. Just because you want to attack people, doesn't mean you should go and ruin their fun by breaking their stuff.

Yes, the mechanics allow you to attack pretty much anyone. But the mechanics also allow you to slam your head into your keyboard until you pass out. Doesn't mean you should do it.

However, I also agree with the other side of the (reasonable) argument. No rules saying you can't attack whoever you please- just keep in mind there might be consequences.

Our PvP policy pretty much boils down to 'don't be a jerk about it.' Attack, but stop if they ask. Attack, but don't keep doing it every day, every hour. Attack, but don't kill both golems and empty their bins.

And, right or wrong, ToMU is very protective of our clannies and shadows both. If we think you have been a jerk, we're probably going to slam you unless you can explain why you weren't a jerk.

Kind of disjointed, I'm distracted and tired, sorry. Pretty sure it makes sense though...
MustafaDeValdemar
MustafaDeValdemar's Avatar
Posts: 235
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 105 years old
Clan: ARROW
Email: valdemar23@yahoo.com
Message #42295 Posted: Feb 22, 2010, 6:01 am
Yes - I am bidding you all a fondue farewell into a life filled with cheese and all the wonderment that it brings. Go with cheese, my friends. Go with cheese.

;), MdV
masterslug
masterslug's Avatar
Posts: 619
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 109 years old
Clan: OTAKU
Message #42301 Posted: Feb 22, 2010, 9:47 am


OTAKU is NOT a "No-PvP" clan - there is no such thing. You merely bully all the other players in the game by saying "don't attack our guys, or our enforcers will pound you." This not only contravenes the spirit of the game, but also the letter (as Cyrric pointed out in the initial post):


Bully?!? before you try to tar us with that brush (as I predicted in my first post) here is our Skirmish History with Long arms (the last one was accepted today):

Long Arms Wins:0 Losses:3

If we are the bullies then that would be the other way around. But no, we stupidly accept your SM's offer of peace (as peace is all we have ever wanted) and then you just hit us again. So as a NON-PVP clan who do you think we consider the bullies?

We don't appose your right to PVP as I stated before. We just don't want to be your punch bag.

MS

Cyrric
Cyrric's Avatar
Posts: 64
Location: Agoia Talia
Magus Age: 98 years old
Clan: ARROW
Real Name: Gimli, son of Gloin. 4 Realz
Message #42306 Posted: Feb 22, 2010, 5:45 pm
masterslug said:
Bully?!? before you try to tar us with that brush (as I predicted in my first post) here is our Skirmish History with Long arms (the last one was accepted today):

Long Arms Wins:0 Losses:3

If we are the bullies then that would be the other way around. But no, we stupidly accept your SM's offer of peace (as peace is all we have ever wanted) and then you just hit us again. So as a NON-PVP clan who do you think we consider the bullies?

We don't appose your right to PVP as I stated before. We just don't want to be your punch bag.

MS



I'm thinking you missed his point, MS. Mustafa was pointing out that when we have attacked members of OTAKU in the past (even random light hits) we've gotten nasty messages threatening us with extreme force. We've also received assertions that OTAKU is a No PVP clan and that we're initiating a clan war by engaging in PVP. This is by definition, bullying.

Skirmish does not equal clan war. You are not our "Punching Bag". The world is. :)

I'd also like to point out that you are not a Non-PVP clan. It's simply a fact. Tateru is, however.
Guyver
Guyver's Avatar
Posts: 125
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 89 years old
Clan: ARROW
Website: Click Here
Message #42307 Posted: Feb 22, 2010, 6:19 pm
i think we need to get back on topic, do we want to enact the nopvp golem name or not. if not what do we want to do. if we just argue and do nothing then the normal pvp players will end up starting magier wars part two without even meaning to. long arms is only partly pvp players, i imagine most clans are that way. so im afraid we do need something.

proposed rule
Golems with the name NOPVP****** cannot be attacked, anyone putting up such a golem within 48Hrs of an outgoing attack or attacking such a golem should be given a 24 hr window to receive attacks from anyone who wants to without consequence, repeated offenders should be kicked from clan.

if we do this then clans who dont abide by this get woa against them supported by all

all in favor say aye
against say nay
Cyrric
Cyrric's Avatar
Posts: 64
Location: Agoia Talia
Magus Age: 98 years old
Clan: ARROW
Real Name: Gimli, son of Gloin. 4 Realz
Message #42309 Posted: Feb 22, 2010, 6:42 pm
Guyver said:

i think we need to get back on topic, do we want to enact the nopvp golem name or not. if not what do we want to do. if we just argue and do nothing then the normal pvp players will end up starting magier wars part two without even meaning to. long arms is only partly pvp players, i imagine most clans are that way. so im afraid we do need something.

proposed rule
Golems with the name NOPVP****** cannot be attacked, anyone putting up such a golem within 48Hrs of an outgoing attack or attacking such a golem should be given a 24 hr window to receive attacks from anyone who wants to without consequence, repeated offenders should be kicked from clan.

if we do this then clans who dont abide by this get woa against them supported by all

all in favor say aye
against say nay



Fine, but it's too convoluted. Just make it illegal to attack people with a golem outside named NO PVP unless they attack you first. The 48/24 hour thing is unenforceable.
DonJuanDeBascobel
DonJuanDeBascobel's Avatar
Posts: 450
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 96 years old
Clan: ARROW
Website: Click Here
Message #42311 Posted: Feb 22, 2010, 6:45 pm
Nay

This rule doesn't make sense. 48 hours after I attack somebody, I can put up a "NO PVP" golem and then I'm safe? That smacks of hypocrisy.

My opinion: There needs to be compromise on this issue, and I agree with much of what Gordon, MS, and Kaelas have posted. Clearly buying tickets is the best way to opt out of PvP. However, there is obviously a gap that needs to be closed between those who have the disposal income to spend (or desire to spend) on tickets, and those who do not. I don't think that those of us who do not have the money to spend on tickets to opt out should be forced into PvP. That's where communication and clan choice come into play. I think that it's up to players who don't wish to engage in PvP to communicate with those who are attacking and negotiate some sort of deal, and that it's up to attackers to understand and respect that everybody has different goals in this game. We've got one big sandbox to play in and everybody needs to share. On the other hand, I feel that it's not reasonable to expect to never be attacked; however, those with NO-PVP arrangements in place should be entitled to a drop in the frequency of attacks (opinion again).

Bottom line: Compromise/communication important. "Asking nicely" for cessation of hostilities should have effects. The more people who quit because of disillusionment with the game (either due to excessive PvP, or not enough PvP) means less income for Kep, which equals lower frequency of updates, or the game just vaporizing. Stuff to think about.
Xorphitus
Xorphitus's Avatar
Posts: 182
Location: Rildesjan
Magus Age: 107 years old
Clan: HAVOC
Message #42313 Posted: Feb 22, 2010, 7:11 pm
Nay

Because the proposal by Guyver has several weak points IMHO:

1. not everyone is a premium member nor has the money to become premium or wants to, therefore named golems indicating NPvP has a general flaw

2. the hour guidelines are not at all controllable or enforcable due to lack of information; therefore it will only cause massive confusion and irritation and thus the danger of abuse and/or aggravation of conflicts, because what third party wants to judge when statement stands against statement?

3. the clan SM decide who is kicked and who is not, and a WOA against clans who refuse to bend their heads because of some unclear ruling will go out with a all out clan war, be sure of that

I doubt it will be so easy, since said named golems open up huge opportunties for confusion and abuse and my guess is it will only make the situation worse.

PS: Common sense should resolve this situation altogether. If you attack someone and this person does not like PvP respect that as long as they do not cross you. There are enough PvP players around, and I know quite some NPvP players who just try to ignore the random PvP attacks and just do not retaliate.
Last Edited: Feb 22, 2010, 7:13 pm
DonJuanDeBascobel
DonJuanDeBascobel's Avatar
Posts: 450
Location: Rimesvin
Magus Age: 96 years old
Clan: ARROW
Website: Click Here
Message #42316 Posted: Feb 22, 2010, 8:44 pm
Xorphitus said:

PS: Common sense should resolve this situation altogether. If you attack someone and this person does not like PvP respect that as long as they do not cross you. There are enough PvP players around, and I know quite some NPvP players who just try to ignore the random PvP attacks and just do not retaliate.


Well stated, sir, I agree.
Last Edited: Feb 22, 2010, 8:45 pm
Cyrric
Cyrric's Avatar
Posts: 64
Location: Agoia Talia
Magus Age: 98 years old
Clan: ARROW
Real Name: Gimli, son of Gloin. 4 Realz
Message #42317 Posted: Feb 22, 2010, 8:52 pm
DonJuanDeBascobel said:

Xorphitus said:

PS: Common sense should resolve this situation altogether. If you attack someone and this person does not like PvP respect that as long as they do not cross you. There are enough PvP players around, and I know quite some NPvP players who just try to ignore the random PvP attacks and just do not retaliate.


Well stated, sir, I agree.


There's a problem with this and it's been detailed earlier in the thread. After 14 days, the attack report is deleted and I'm going to forget who I've tagged. Sorry, but I refuse to make a running list of people who don't want to PVP.

Ultimately, the responsibility for the defense of their workshop is on the magus's shoulders, not the entire community.
Last Edited: Feb 22, 2010, 8:54 pm
masterslug
masterslug's Avatar
Posts: 619
Location: Shuul
Magus Age: 109 years old
Clan: OTAKU
Message #42319 Posted: Feb 22, 2010, 9:24 pm

Guyver said:

proposed rule
Golems with the name NOPVP****** cannot be attacked, anyone putting up such a golem within 48Hrs of an outgoing attack or attacking such a golem should be given a 24 hr window to receive attacks from anyone who wants to without consequence, repeated offenders should be kicked from clan.



We'll support this if it goes to the vote but I agree that it's probably going to be unworkable. Cyrric is right, make it so you either have a non-pvp named golem or don't have one, no swapping between to play the system.


Xorphitus said:

and I know quite some NPvP players who just try to ignore the random PvP attacks and just do not retaliate.


We tried this for a while, lost players from the clan and game to griefers who just see you as easy targets. Not planning to lose any one else this way!


Cyrric said:

I'm thinking you missed his point, MS. Mustafa was pointing out that when we have attacked members of OTAKU in the past (even random light hits) we've gotten nasty messages threatening us with extreme force. We've also received assertions that OTAKU is a No PVP clan and that we're initiating a clan war by engaging in PVP. This is by definition, bullying.



Poke a dog with a stick it growls first, poke it again and it bites, but it's not the dog that's the bully. Having said that all communication from OTAKU should be polite so if you get any 'nasty messages' forward them too me and I'll deal with it.







 
First | Page 2 | Last
Muelsfell Chat Options
Muelsfell currently has no official chat room setup, but there is an unofficial player run chat called Darkmyst Muelsfell Conference.

Username: 


Disclaimer: Please note that this chat is NOT moderated, supported, owned, or operated by Muelsfell staff. Muelsfell is not responsible for the content or function of the chat room, nor is it linked in any way to Muelsfell game functions such as your workshop, account name, or password (your magus name is forwarded to the chat as a nickname if you are logged in when you join the chat). Muelsfell Terms of Service do not apply for this chat, so please use this only at your own risk, and remember that official game staff will NEVER ask for your password.
Why wait? Register for your free account and start playing right now!

Play Muelsfell!