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Index » Muelsfell Game Forum » Bug Reports Muelsfell World v1.0 Forums
AuthorThread: Movement
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Yamikuronue
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Message #37365 Posted: Oct 2, 2009, 5:18 am
Laika Rose continues to slosh through the muck towards a marsh dragon while a marsh dragon holds its ground. A marsh dragon backs up so that it can use its acid breath effectively. . Your golem backs up so that it can use its repeater dart tube effectively. The attacker's repeater dart tube is out of range with about 111 feet between them.

Laika Rose holds its ground while a marsh dragon holds its ground. A marsh dragon backs up so that it can use its acid breath effectively. The attacker's repeater dart tube is out of range with about 96 feet between them, but the defender readies its acid breath.



How exactly does one hold their ground and also back up?
Yamikuronue
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Message #37951 Posted: Oct 12, 2009, 9:10 pm
Bump. Movement-based bugs ought to go here for the moment, since I've noticed several threads on the topic.
Rednaxela
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Message #37955 Posted: Oct 12, 2009, 11:15 pm
To quote other threads:
http://www.muelsfell.com/world/map_community.php?msg= 37920
Kaelas said:

Well... it seems that the 'backing up out of range' problem isn't limited to golems. Seems dragons can also fall prey to this embarrassing little blunder.

The combat stalls as both opponents either lack the energy to attack or are in no condition to strike back.Valadin continues to slosh through the muck towards Caerula the Frost Dragon while Caerula the Frost Dragon holds its ground. Caerula the Frost Dragon backs up so that it can use its coldfire breath effectively. . Your golem backs up so that it can use its quake boot effectively. Both combatants are out of range with about 178 feet between them.

I saved the page if seeing it would help.


http://www.muelsfell.com/world/map_community.php?msg= 37494
Shayla said:


Rime holds its ground while Caerula the Frost Dragon holds its ground. Your golem backs up so that it can use its triple-barrel cannon effectively. The attacker's triple-barrel cannon is out of range with about 100 feet between them, but the defender readies its coldfire breath.


This happened in Round 2 - in Round 1, Rime successfully attacked with the triple-barrel cannon.

Why, since the dragon was not in melee range, would my golem back up - and why would it move out of the range of its weapon?

This has happened several times now, and is getting frustrating.

Has anyone else noticed this issue?

I am using Chrome v3.0.195.24, screen resolution 1280x800, WinXP.


Thanks,
<3, Shayla
MustafaDeValdemar said:

I have experienced this issue as well.

My golem is in range the first round, and attacks successfully. However, in the next round, the opponent backs up, and my golem backs up as well - even though this places it out of range. The most recent end result is the loss of my golem's right arm. Again.

I see that Yamikuronue has an entry below on this same issue (http://www.muelsfell.com/world/map_community.php?msg=37365) .

Any thoughts?

Anyone?


... Anyone?



... ... Kep?


:), MdV


http://www.muelsfell.com/world/map_community.php?msg= 37862
Rednaxela said:

Anyone else had cases like this?

Your Clay Golem continues to slosh through the muck towards Caerula the Frost Dragon while Caerula the Frost Dragon holds its ground. Your golem backs up so that it can use its repeater dart tube effectively. The attacker's repeater dart tube is out of range with about 124 feet between them.



Is it an expected mechanic that a golem ('normal' mode, not hangback or agressive) with a ranged weapon might walk towards when out of range, and during the same round back up again? Smells like a bug to me.
Nanashi said:

I think it is confusion on the code's part, cause as far as I know the dragons are the only things Kep has created with such a high attack range. (Am I right about that? I haven't fought the dragons yet...) Anything else needs to close some even in the first round, I think anything else ranged has to be between 60 and 80 feet, yes?

If I am right, I don't know for sure and it is rather late, Kep just needs to tweak the top end values.

What seems odd to me though is that your golem apparently backed up more than it moved forward, cause you start at 100 feet, and you move forward till you hit melee or just enough to still be within melee range. And if Caerula didn't move at all, how did your golem move forward then back up...39 feet?... in one round?

Something smells rotten in Icerush
Rednaxela said:
Some ranged weapons have a range as high as 120. Also that wasn't the first round Nanashi, it was already a distance away by the point of that oddity, since Caerula likes to back up and does so quite fast.

Last Edited: Oct 12, 2009, 11:22 pm
Namebreaker
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Message #38002 Posted: Oct 13, 2009, 7:49 pm
I've had multiple instances of my golem backing up and the dragon's backing up to where my golem's ranged weapon was out of range but the dragon was still able to use it's breath weapon.

However, I was under the impression this is deliberate to enhance how nasty the Named dragons are.

~Namebreaker
Kaelas
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Message #38014 Posted: Oct 14, 2009, 12:03 am
Reposting:

Well... it seems that the 'backing up out of range' problem isn't limited to golems. Seems dragons can also fall prey to this embarrassing little blunder.

The combat stalls as both opponents either lack the energy to attack or are in no condition to strike back.
Valadin continues to slosh through the muck towards Caerula the Frost Dragon while Caerula the Frost Dragon holds its ground. Caerula the Frost Dragon backs up so that it can use its coldfire breath effectively.
Your golem backs up so that it can use its quake boot effectively. Both combatants are out of range with about 178 feet between them.

I saved the page if seeing it would help.
Rednaxela
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Message #38015 Posted: Oct 14, 2009, 12:23 am
Namebreaker said:

I've had multiple instances of my golem backing up and the dragon's backing up to where my golem's ranged weapon was out of range but the dragon was still able to use it's breath weapon.

However, I was under the impression this is deliberate to enhance how nasty the Named dragons are.

~Namebreaker

That would explain causes of both backing up and the golem ending up out of range, however it doesn't explain the case of:
a) Dragon holds it's ground and golem back up and out of range (as I reported)
or b) Golem holds it's ground and Dragon backs up, out of it's own huge breath range (as Kaelas reports)


And btw Kae, I had already reposted/quoted for you there :P
MustafaDeValdemar
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Message #38044 Posted: Oct 14, 2009, 7:43 pm
This is getting ridiculous:

[Round 2] Saint George holds its ground while Caerula the Frost Dragon holds its ground. Caerula the Frost Dragon backs up so that it can use its coldfire breath effectively. . Your golem backs up so that it can use its triple-barrel cannon effectively. The attacker's triple-barrel cannon is out of range with about 132 feet between them, but the defender readies its coldfire breath.

Caerula the Frost Dragon attacks with its coldfire breath and hits the chest (1 dmg), the right arm (6 dmg), the chest (2 dmg), the left hand (9 dmg), the right arm (11 dmg) and the head (1 dmg) with an exhaled gout of ice crystals.

[Round 3] Saint George continues to slosh through the muck towards Caerula the Frost Dragon while Caerula the Frost Dragon holds its ground. Your golem backs up so that it can use its triple-barrel cannon effectively. The attacker's triple-barrel cannon is out of range with about 132 feet between them.

Caerula the Frost Dragon attacks with its coldfire breath and hits the right arm (12 dmg), the right arm (28 dmg -- CRITICAL HIT!), the pelvis (8 dmg -- CRITICAL HIT!), the pelvis (4 dmg), the chest (1 dmg) and the chest (4 dmg) with an exhaled gout of ice crystals. The right arm explodes into a dozen globs of clay!

Any word on a forthcoming fix?

:), MdV
MustafaDeValdemar
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Message #38049 Posted: Oct 14, 2009, 8:40 pm
Rednaxela said:

a) Dragon holds it's ground and golem back up and out of range (as I reported)


I just had that happen:
[Round 2] Saint George holds its ground while Caerula the Frost Dragon holds its ground. Your golem backs up so that it can use its triple-barrel cannon effectively. The attacker's triple-barrel cannon is out of range with about 110 feet between them, but the defender readies its coldfire breath.

Caerula the Frost Dragon attacks with its coldfire breath and hits the right arm (13 dmg), the right leg (13 dmg), the chest (4 dmg), the right hand (6 dmg) and the right hand (12 dmg) with an exhaled gout of ice crystals.
MustafaDeValdemar
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Message #38169 Posted: Oct 18, 2009, 2:55 am
And again:

[Round 2] Saint George holds its ground while Caerula the Frost Dragon holds its ground. Your golem backs up so that it can use its triple-barrel cannon effectively. The attacker's triple-barrel cannon is out of range with about 115 feet between them, but the defender readies its coldfire breath.


[Round 3] Saint George continues to slosh through the muck towards Caerula the Frost Dragon while Caerula the Frost Dragon holds its ground. Your golem backs up so that it can use its triple-barrel cannon effectively. The attacker's triple-barrel cannon is out of range with about 115 feet between them.


And again:

[Round 4] Saint George holds its ground while Caerula the Frost Dragon holds its ground. Your golem backs up so that it can use its triple-barrel cannon effectively. The attacker's triple-barrel cannon is out of range with about 115 feet between them, but the defender readies its coldfire breath.

Kep - is there any more information I could provide that might help?

Thanks,
:), MdV
Atropos
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Location: Daylsfeld
Magus Age: 131 years old
Clan: AGOMC
Message #38205 Posted: Oct 19, 2009, 3:49 am
Looking into this one now.
MustafaDeValdemar
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Message #38472 Posted: Oct 27, 2009, 12:01 pm
Bump

This is still happening once every 2-3 combats.

Any progress?

Thanks!
:), MdV
Atropos
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Message #38492 Posted: Oct 28, 2009, 2:45 am
Got it to occur on the VERY first test.

Had the golem and dragon both back up to use weapon effectively, backing up out of range.

It ALSO happens with a normal stance if you rig it up properly.

Looking through debugging info and trying to spot the problem.

At least part of it is caused by the fact that the dragons can back up outside of almost everything's range in one round.

I'm (We're?) working on it now.
Yamikuronue
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Message #38749 Posted: Nov 3, 2009, 5:21 pm
Has progress been made?
Kaelas
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Message #38924 Posted: Nov 8, 2009, 12:52 am
Just tossing this one in:

The combat stalls as both opponents either lack the energy to attack or are in no condition to strike back.Valadin continues to advance upon Gwendolyn the Mercurial Dragon while Gwendolyn the Mercurial Dragon holds its ground. Gwendolyn the Mercurial Dragon backs up so that it can use its coldfire breath effectively. . Your golem backs up so that it can use its repeater dart tube effectively. Both combatants are out of range with about 206 feet between them.


Side note- punctuation/grammar typo in there too. Double '.' use just before the second to last sentence.
Kaelas
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Message #38948 Posted: Nov 9, 2009, 1:41 am
Valadin continues to advance upon Gwendolyn the Mercurial Dragon while Gwendolyn the Mercurial Dragon holds its ground. Your golem backs up so that it can use its repeater dart tube effectively. The attacker's repeater dart tube is out of range with about 123 feet between them. Both combatants are out of range with about 123 feet between them.

Gwendolyn the Mercurial Dragon attacks with its coldfire breath and hits the chest (9 dmg), the right arm (9 dmg), the chest (3 dmg), the pelvis (1 dmg), the pelvis (1 dmg) and the right leg (9 dmg) with an exhaled gout of ice crystals. The defender's coldfire breath needs to recover.


He advances, then back up. but the range didn't change from the last round. Also. How are 'both combatants out of range with about 123 feet between them' if she then proceeds to breath me?
Atropos
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Message #38949 Posted: Nov 9, 2009, 2:58 am
So, running this through some debugging stuff.

The problem is deeper and more involved than it seems to be.

Ranges aren't displaying properly, and there's some other nastiness that has exposed itself due to the large speed of the dragons when I go to test them.

I'm still trying to peg down the exact issue, but I guarantee you it's something that only Kep can fix.

I'm getting messages that things are backing up when in fact they aren't, and range is being displayed differently than it actually is.
(Combatants out of range when things are.).

This is one insidious little problem. Fortunately, it's also giving me a chance to test phantom limb at the same time.

I'll be giving periodic updates as this unfolds, as it is fairly important to fix this before we roll out some other nice things.

Atropos,
P.R./Multi Dev.
Harryhausen
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Message #39757 Posted: Nov 24, 2009, 2:51 pm
I read the posts here, and I still have a question or two.

What is the proper sequence of a ranged vs a melee battle where the melee is faster? Of course first there's the approach time where the melee is getting pounded, but then once the melee is within range and gets in a few hits, on the next round, does the ranged get a turn to back up while the melee sits still? I'm hoping that this is part of the bug, since it showed up as "both combatants hold their ground. ranged retreats."

Please someone clear this up for me.
Rednaxela
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Message #39771 Posted: Nov 24, 2009, 11:48 pm
"both combatants hold their ground. ranged retreats." would be a bug since it says two conflicting things.

Ranged set to hangback is supposed to keep trying to reatreat though. Ranged set to 'normal' I believe is *not* supposed to however.
Yamikuronue
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Message #39779 Posted: Nov 25, 2009, 1:41 am
Working off intuition here - could it be an attempt to eliminate the advantage of moving first by allowing the combatant to change their mind based on what the other is doing?

For example: A doesn't move. B moves . Based on what B did, A now wants to move, so changes their mind to move. Instead of properly printing:

"B moves. A moves."

It prints "A doesn't move. B moves. A moves."?
Rednaxela
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Message #39783 Posted: Nov 25, 2009, 2:53 am
That thought has came to mind here too, however that doesn't seem to make sense for two reasons:
1) Either one of the golems has to decide last anyway, or both make their decision without knowledge of what the other is doing. In the second case, a second round doesn't make a difference anyway
2) In Harry's example, why would the ranged golem first decide to not move back before changing it's mind? The other golem also choosing to stay still changes nothing. In other words, that would explain "A doesn't move. B moves. A moves." but not "A doesn't move. B doesn't move. A moves.".
Last Edited: Nov 25, 2009, 2:56 am
Atropos
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Location: Daylsfeld
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Clan: AGOMC
Message #39785 Posted: Nov 25, 2009, 3:16 am
Oohhh Dear. I think I know what's causing the problem.

The check seems to be sequential with defender checking second.

From what I get from the debugger, here's how it seems to be working:

IF (!AttackerInRange)
THEN Movetowards ();
ELSE Hold () ;

IF (!DefenderInRange)
THEN Movetowards ();
ELSE Hold () ;

IF (Hangback)

IF (!AttackerTooClose)
THEN Backup () ;
ELSE Holdatmax () ;

IF (!DefenderTooClose)
THEN Backup () ;
ELSE Holdatmax

So, if the dragon defender is say, between 0 and 70ft away from you, it seems to just dive back it's max move. It seems to get this check LAST in terms of order of operations, so the attacking golem does not get to chasing until a turn after it's moved out of range.

Hopefully this is enough for Kep to go a-fixin, as I'm going to be pretty inactive for exams for a while.

Atropos,
Bug-Killing since 1669.
Yamikuronue
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Message #39786 Posted: Nov 25, 2009, 3:31 am
IF (!AttackerTooClose)
THEN Backup () ;


...did you leave in some negations there, or is that why hangback sucks?
Rednaxela
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Message #39787 Posted: Nov 25, 2009, 3:42 am
Interesting Atropos. Other than what Yami pointed out though, I'm not sure the following is addressed:
1) The observation of Caerula backing itself out of it's own range range
2) The observation of a golem ADVANCING and BACKING UP on the same turn
3) The observation a golem being in range on one round and holding it's ground, then in the next round BOTH golems back up out of range of either. This is despite NOT being too close according to the decisions golems made in prior round

All of that says to me that something inside the "TooClose" checks is also broken.
Also, just quickly noting, that a fix to what you say needs to not cause the reverse situation of the ranged golem failing to try to back up while the opponant advances of course.
Yamikuronue
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Message #39788 Posted: Nov 25, 2009, 3:45 am
Advancing and backing up - the advancement code is checked first; does this happen when the combined movemenbt speed is greater than the weapon's range? That would explain why the dragons made it apparent. Observe:

Mythical weapon has a range of 50ft. Golem has a speed of 25ft. Dragon has a speed of 200ft. Golem and Dragon are 55ft apart. Attacker advances; distance is now 30ft. Defender advances; range is now 0 (melee). Hangback: Attacker is too close, back up. Defender is not too close. Thuse, Golem advances; Dragon advances; Golem backs up. What needs to be in place is a break out of the entire movement code once both combatants have moved once.

Rednaxela
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Message #39790 Posted: Nov 25, 2009, 3:52 am
I know that the pseudocode explains case #2 that I list. Just meant that Atropos didn't address that one in the discussion and I don't want that case forgotten.
Last Edited: Nov 25, 2009, 3:55 am
 
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