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Index » Muelsfell Game Forum » Suggestions and Improvements Muelsfell World v1.0 Forums
AuthorThread: Letting us help Kep
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Semaj
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Message #39123 Posted: Nov 13, 2009, 3:44 pm
This one goes out to the creator himself.

I know you are busy toiling over lines of code, trying to find those missed semicolons and misplaced integers and we all thank you for it. But for some of that code would it not be helpful to have the caring eyes of the community you built look it over and find the things you have missed and overlooked?

I am suggesting that you make some of you code open source. Not all of it, I am sure there are things you don't want the general public to know. Just the things you don't care or doesn't mater if the function behind it is known. That way you can spend more of your time working on the parts of the game that give it it's unique allure.

What do you say Kep? Let us help you.

~Semaj
Yamikuronue
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Message #39131 Posted: Nov 13, 2009, 6:23 pm
Very much agreed. I'm told some of the "creature creators" can access some of the code, but while I have no interest in making monsters, I'd love to get my hands on the codebase so I could fix the most irritating bugs.

Really, I don't feel like this game is out of beta. It is, officially, but I think there's more bugs now than there were before, and half the features are still coming soon with no word on the horizon. And yet, Kep wants us to pay for premie and tickets like it's a fully finished game - why do we get no feedback from the admin? Why is this 'Atropos' the only person willing to work with us to fix things, and yet that person doesn't seem to have the ability to fix them either? Why do we get new monsters but no fixes to the combat so we can actually fight them properly? Why has everything we've been promised since clans opened dissolved like cotton candy in the rain? Why is the game stagnating slowly?

And that's why Kep will never let me touch his code - because I'm aggressive when I get passionate about things. Maybe we should organize a boycott or something.
masterslug
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Clan: OTAKU
Message #39135 Posted: Nov 13, 2009, 7:01 pm
If you actual want to organise something, can I suggest a slightly less rash approach.

How about condensing the vast number of suggestions for game improvements down to a short list of the most important features people would really like to see.

A member from each clan could collect a list of say 10. Ideas that repeat across the different clan's lists can be drawn into a short list. Then you can poll all the players to order that final list for priority.

There are many fun things that could be added to any game, and not enough time for even a team of programmers to do them all. What features are going to actually improve players game time and keep their attention? What are we prepared to live with to get those features?

The list doesn't need to be too specific, it could include more abstract ideas like "I want more to do", "I want more role play opportunities", "I want more players in the game", "I want harder challenges", "I want more toys", "I want more development opportunities" or even "I want the combat system overhauled"

At least then Kep can see what the majority of players want from their game time.
Yamikuronue
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Message #39136 Posted: Nov 13, 2009, 7:19 pm
I asked him through message to comment on the status of the bugs he was working on, so we'd know what's going on - and not a single post has come from him about any of them. Honestly, if there was just progress on bugs - if I could close any of the bug reports that have opened - I'd be less upset. It feels like bug reports are worthless because we have no idea if he's even reading them. Features should come after the worst of the bugs are fixed, honestly.
Semaj
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Message #39137 Posted: Nov 13, 2009, 7:34 pm
Truth is we may have not made this game but every active member playing enjoys it. It has become OUR game and if we want it improved we need to take charge.

A top ten list seems like a good idea to start. I have a bit of basic programing under my belt and I know if you don't prioritize you WILL get lost in your code. I most definitely will be directing my fellow clan mates and allied clans to this thread and get a poll from them.

I also really believe a bit of open source coding would make a world of a difference. I know I am geek enough to sit down and spend some time looking over code for free to improve the game I play. We have somewhere in the ballpark of 250 active members on this site, I am sure there are plenty of other willing volunteers in there too.

When Obama was elected we where promised change, but nothing has. That's because we have to make the change! (Like the political joke I slipped in there?) This has become a project to big for one person, but together we can get it done and do it right.

I'm just here to have a good time, help if I can and I am not apposed to being the one to make waves if it will help improve everyone's gaming experience.
PhatsMahoney
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Message #39139 Posted: Nov 13, 2009, 8:16 pm
I think he's just away working on something big for the game, hence his absence.

In his place he put Atropos to at least be a voice.

Maybe he is off working on several fixes and updates; doing an overhaul. I'm not going to regard his absence as ignoring the game, but rather remain optimistic and patient that he is off working and that something is coming our way that we can all appreciate.

I'm not about to discredit him and say he doesn't know what he is doing.
Yamikuronue
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Message #39142 Posted: Nov 13, 2009, 8:46 pm
His twitter implies he's only got limited time to work on the game at all:

EArkham:
Not being able to work on Muelsfell is making me twitchy. Hopefully will get a good day in next week when I get back.
9:10 AM Nov 6th from web


(note: a good *day*)

Major bugs
Golem Items while Golem is in Clan Depot [www.muelsfell.com/world/map_community.php] - first reported ages and ages ago. Never fixed.
Movement Bugs [www.muelsfell.com/world/map_community.php] - several, all related, game-breaking.
Dissapearing Basement [www.muelsfell.com/world/map_community.php] - more rare, but WTF game-breaking.

Easy Fixes
Sorting Issues [www.muelsfell.com/world/map_community.php] in the depot, armoury, and membership pages - all of which I've reported multiple times along with the fix for them [www.muelsfell.com/world/map_community.php] (back in JANUARY).
Repair All [www.muelsfell.com/world/map_community.php] STILL doesn't repair the main HP - reported Feb 3rd!

Promised Features
See this link [www.muelsfell.com/world/map_community.php] - we were promised families, clan-based jobs, a major market revision, and more golem customization options. None of which has been mentioned since.
Clan War [www.muelsfell.com/world/map_community.php] - the skirmish system, as in the link I've selected, was only supposed to be a temporary patch. Nobody knows how the score works exactly, but it was just until he got clan wars working for real. This was a year and a half ago.

Any others? Once all those are fixed - note that this is ONLY bugs and features we were promised! - we can start going through the suggestions box to find the ones that have been suggested repeatedly or been well liked.
Last Edited: Nov 13, 2009, 9:15 pm
Rednaxela
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Message #39144 Posted: Nov 13, 2009, 9:33 pm
I don't really have much to say here except that I share Yami's concerns. It's quite disheartening that there has been no movement on anything except a couple new creatures, since then end of September, particularly considering the bugs around. And indeed, Twitter indicates that it's unlikely Kep has had much of a chance to work on much since then. It seems clear to me that Muelsfell is larger than Kep currently has the time to deal with.
laidan
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Message #39153 Posted: Nov 13, 2009, 10:38 pm
I have to agree on some points. I definitely have enjoyed the game, and appreciate the amount of work that has gone into it, but things seem to be stagnating, and it is disheartening to go so long without seeing any progress on these issues, or even hearing anything.

As for my priorities, fixing bugs is top followed by anything to break up the current monotony that is high levels- months between library levels in the clan means a lot of really repetitive grinding if nothing else changes. The dragons were great (if a bit frustrating, but that's almost good), but it's been a long time (relatively) since they showed up.
Atropos
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Message #39159 Posted: Nov 14, 2009, 2:15 am
Okay. So, some info.

I'm not exactly sure why Kep doesn't want to share code. Going by my own experiance, it's because it's been worked hard on and is making money, and having your work copied and taken elsewhere always really sucks.

We all do have day jobs.

Yes, we have something big in the works. Kep is working on getting us the ability to deliver a lot of new, good content, including a lot of endgame stuff. This is delaying the other stuff, and is pretty much entirely my doing, so the blame can be directed here. If it gets working the way we want it though, It will definately be worth it, I guarantee it.

As I've caused that, I've been looking into the bugs I have a chance of pinning down. The ranged bug is tricky, but I have a general idea of what is going wrong and have sent Kep logs on it.

We've also been going over the creatures and making some changes, making some good new ones.

Dragons are probably going to be made more difficult in the near future. They're meant to be "just" farmable, and some are being taken down much too easily.

I've also created some creatures that are QUITE challenging and will require a certain mindset to defeat, but are potentially very rewarding. They stretch current mechanics and formulas to the limit, so they'll probably expose some previously hidden bugs, too.

I haven't heard much from anyone else in a while.

Well, there's your update. Hopefully it allieviates some of that worry. Our current focus is on endgame content and knocking away that stagnating feeling.

I might be able to start running some miniature events, I might not. If the architecture supports what I'm currently working on, they should happen.

Atropos,
Dev, Everything & PR.
Yamikuronue
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Message #39160 Posted: Nov 14, 2009, 3:01 am
Define "endgame content" - the only hard details you've given is that "Lulz harder creaturs COMING SOON!" which, if you read the posts above, is exactly the sort of distraction we're NOT asking for.
Rednaxela
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Message #39165 Posted: Nov 14, 2009, 4:24 am
I agree with what Yami, that what appears to be a focus on creatures is not where I'd personally like to see priority placed. However I do find it to be somewhat of a relief that there seems to be more going on than was evident before.

I'd also comment: I'd think giving more frequent updates on the direction of development, might not only be reassuring, but might be helpful to gauge what people are interested in seeing in Muelsfell. Actually, one thing I've seen in many browser games is a multiple choice "poll" along the side or in forums, in which the developers ask things such as what proposed feature players are most interested in.
Last Edited: Nov 14, 2009, 4:25 am
GordonIronsmith
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Message #39170 Posted: Nov 14, 2009, 4:59 am
That I think is your best bet Atropos, Kep, is to keep us in the loop. you don't need to tell us What's going on precisely, but right now We barely know what's going on (thanks for that tidbit, but I think we could use a tiny bit more) but as long as the info is flowing I'll be happy.
[ADMIN] Arkham
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Message #39177 Posted: Nov 14, 2009, 4:07 pm
I have no plans to release the game's source code. Sorry. I was about to give some portions of it to the first creature creator to review/improve/debug/etc when he suddenly vanished without a word and refused to respond when I tried to contact him. This has quite frankly killed any interest I'd had in adding another coder that I don't personally know.

I dunno. Maybe I can give someone a lib file with some fictional data in a format that the game uses, then say "OK, this is what the game gives you when the page is loaded -- make a (for example) fishing system from this with whatever new tables you need." That won't work for integrated systems, like magic, but there's a ton of peripherial systems that could benefit from that. I'll discuss this idea with the critter admins first and see if they're interested.

One upgrade in progress is so that the current critter and item creators can create and release new content without a need for me to be involved. This will remove a pretty big timesink and let me focus on fixing bugs when I have time for Muelsfell. The creature creators have been very patient in waiting for me to find time to approve their current batch of creations as it is.

Why do that first? Because this is something that can be done by improving one of the admin panels. Fixing bugs in the code actually requires giving someone else access to login to the server. It's not being done as a "distraction" but as a way to get ANY kind of content going live into the game on a regular basis.

Sincerely sorry for the lack of updates lately. When I have other projects that are going to generate some income, then I have to give those higher priority. Frankly, it's a very depressing situation for me. :(

Kep
Yamikuronue
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Message #39181 Posted: Nov 14, 2009, 5:42 pm
...my unbridled hatred and rage towards a certain individual has just grown by leaps and bounds. Trust me, his vanishment had nothing to do with you.

Frankly, however - if you're not willing to give the time and effort to work on THIS money-making project, then you have no right to ask us to pay for it. If you're not able to devote the kind of time and upkeep it'd take, either hire someone who will or release premium content to the masses. The reason it's not making you more money than it is is because it's simply not worth it to pay for a half-finish game that the creator is too absorbed in other things to give two shits about. The lack of even very simple bug fixes feels as unprofessional as he-who-shall-not-be-named's disappearance.

You have to understand - my anger in this case comes from my love of the game. Unfortunately, I have very little love for the game as it is written - the stagnant, monotonous grind to no end. What I love about this game is what the players have built - the community, the roleplay, the politics. It feels very much like knowing for sure that the god of this world has abandoned us - and we're helpless to enact real change in the world without him.
Semaj
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Message #39183 Posted: Nov 14, 2009, 7:24 pm
Looks like I wasn't just splashing in the kiddie pool, I knocked all the water out of the damn thing.

First off I seem to have struck some nerves with this thread. Remember everyone, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate and I am sure we all know where hate leads to. What ever past events have happened, good, bad or otherwise are just that, the past. We most defiantly need to focus on the present and if we get to it the future.

The present dominating problems I see are lack of time and stagnation which I can be sure walk hand and hand. To get things moving in the right direction I would suggest taking a step back first, back to beta that is. This would be to let the community at large know that things will be getting worked on and to expect problems. Next in lieu of not wanting to open source the code, which mine you I completely understand, why not hire some free help? There seems to be at least a few people here with the knowledge and ambition to work on the site for free. Do some interviews, draw up some contracts to protect yourself and your code and get the help this project needs. Hell, I only passed Computer Science 101 yet I was still always able to help my college friends find the stupid little mistakes in there code strait though till they graduated.

This is of course just my input on a course of action.
Yamikuronue
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Message #39184 Posted: Nov 14, 2009, 8:05 pm
If you're worried about code being stolen, contracts are a good way to prevent that.

EDIT: As I've received some PMS, let me reiterate that I do enjoy what we've made of the game. I just feel that the shrinking player base is a direct result of the game itself becoming stagnant and boring which is a direct result of the lack of progress. Everyone wants to play it when something new, like dragons, are released, but what about the dozens of long-time players who quit because in the six months before the dragon release, it felt like nothing at all was being done on the game, not even bug fixes? Can you tell me honestly that my anger is not justified?
Last Edited: Nov 14, 2009, 8:11 pm
Rednaxela
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Message #39185 Posted: Nov 14, 2009, 8:39 pm
Okay, right now I think everyone needs to calm down. There is no need for things to get personal, in PM or otherwise.

This thread in summary reveals the following important things:
- There is a notable discontent (of varying degrees) among players due to stagnation
- A sudden disappearance of news of anything happening since the end of September contributed to this
- A lack of bug fixes is concerning to a number of players
- The current development direction is focused on giving more ability to 'creature creators' to create content, so that it will require less intervention from Kep in the future
- Not all players see this as the most desired development direction, however Kep views it as the best solution for the rate of content in the long-run
- Kep has less time for Muelsfell than he has in the past

Does anyone dispute those points? I think this thread has bridged a (hopefully temporary) disconnect between the players and Kep/Atropos. While the state of things is valid cause for concern, and being upset is justified, there is no benefit in adversarial feelings.
Last Edited: Nov 14, 2009, 8:40 pm
GordonIronsmith
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Message #39186 Posted: Nov 14, 2009, 9:14 pm
I think you got it right Rednaxela, but allow me to reiterate. It's important to say calm and stay rational. This is a game and if it dies oh well, but doing rash things isn't going to help anything. If we boycott Muelsfell, what will be the out come? Kep will stop getting cash from the game knocking it down on his life's list of priorities. Kep and Atropos need our support if this community is to grow. Fighting will do nothing to improve our situation and I hope everyone can take a step back and look at the situation.


Yamikuronue
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Message #39187 Posted: Nov 14, 2009, 9:26 pm
Let me just say here: I am a longstanding customer of this game - I've paid for my premie every month for over a year, never letting it lapse. My views apparently aren't valid because they're negative? If I were the only one who felt this way I wouldn't bother posting about it.

Complaints have been made in the past and ignored. That's why I've taken the kiddie gloves off and am stating my feelings bluntly. This thread is apparently not being ignored - and if an unnamed official source wants to harass me in private because of it, at least my words are being read by the person that matters and discussed in public.
Kaelas
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Message #39188 Posted: Nov 14, 2009, 10:09 pm
Not really sure what to add but figured I'd give my take on things.

When I first starting playing Muelsfell, I'd be on for two, maybe three times a day. And not just for ten minutes either- I'd do 2-3 hours stints. When Clans came out and I ended taking over with Squeezepenny, that time increased, then increased again when I started managing joint Clan accounts. Even with the fact that I'd multi-task with other games, web comics and IRC, I was pretty much doing a full eight hour shift each day playing Muelsfell.

And it was fun and not even close to being boring.

Lately... I'm on once a day, for about 3 hours. And I'm not so much multi-tasking as more or less forgetting I have the browser open to Muelsfell for about half of that, if not more. Considering I have my main and three other Clan accounts that the other people that used to also play have more or less abandoned... that's not a lot of time, really.

The dragons were good, they were fun to fight. Clans are by far the best part of the game. The new map feature (premmie) is nifty and that items (most) are stackable is very convienent. The new items (scales, food, etc) are also cool to have. But there hasn't been much happening lately- and much more importantly, we, the players, don't know if or when anything will happen. We need new content but even moreso, we need hope that such is coming.

And, not sure why it matters, but I also pay for premmie and opt-out. So if that makes an opinion more valid, than add that to the scales.

...so much for not knowing what to add, it seems.

PS- thanks for everyone's help with nulling my Bill. Which reminds me, the Senate is a nice feature too.
Arcess
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Message #39190 Posted: Nov 15, 2009, 12:41 am
From reading this thread it seems to me that between the stagnation, lack of news and lack of bugfixing, Yamikuronue feels that she is no longer getting value for her money as a premium customer. It looks like other people share these concerns.

If the admins lack the time to fix bugs, and are unwilling to share code for other people to assist, then perhaps a bugtracking system is the way to go.

A public bugtracking system would allow the admins to see all the bugs and their severity/age in the one place to decide which to fix first, instead of having to wade through many forum threads.

We as players would be able to see any progress being made on bugfixes, and have assurance that something is being done.

We at TOMU are willing to do the work to set up and run such a system, leaving the admins free to actually fix the bugs. We're sure they would appreciate the assistance as surely as they're honestly trying to fix bugs.

Hopefully, we will see a flurry of updates and fixes once this is up and running and those admin panel changes are done.
Rednaxela
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Message #39191 Posted: Nov 15, 2009, 12:59 am
Also, I feel I must comment that, while I don't pay for premium and thus don't feel I deserve to comment on this aspect, I do in principal agree with:
Yamikuronue said:
Frankly, however - if you're not willing to give the time and effort to work on THIS money-making project, then you have no right to ask us to pay for it. If you're not able to devote the kind of time and upkeep it'd take, either hire someone who will or release premium content to the masses..

and, I'd be surpried if anyone who has paid for premium disagrees
Last Edited: Nov 15, 2009, 1:09 am
Arcess
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Message #39192 Posted: Nov 15, 2009, 1:16 am
Rednaxela said:

Also, I feel I must comment that, while I don't pay for premium and thus don't feel I deserve to comment on this aspect, I do in principal agree with:
Yamikuronue said:
Frankly, however - if you're not willing to give the time and effort to work on THIS money-making project, then you have no right to ask us to pay for it. If you're not able to devote the kind of time and upkeep it'd take, either hire someone who will or release premium content to the masses..

Agreed. If people feel the game is no longer worth paying for, then they will stop paying. I'm sure the admins have hard numbers on whether this is already happening.
GordonIronsmith
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Message #39193 Posted: Nov 15, 2009, 1:28 am
Arcess said:
Agreed. If people feel the game is no longer worth paying for, then they will stop paying. I'm sure the admins have hard numbers on whether this is already happening.


Sounds reasonable to me. While I think we should support Kep, I will never agree to a one way deal.
 
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